Mabel Yin

Mark,
Correction:
I should have inserted the qualifier “ministry” in my previous post.
I meant to say:
This is correct: Distinction of individual specific ministry role does not = hierarchy
Your statement “distinction of (ministry)role does not = hierarchy” is ONLY CORRECT when it is NOT GENDER SPECIFIC.

Mabel

Mark,
You said: Distinction of roles does not = spiritual hierarchy.
You are right, except that is not what you believe. You believe in distinction of gender roles.
Distinction of gender roles = spiritual hierarchy.
You simply confuse distinction of roles with distinction of gender roles.

Mabel

Great observation, Kay. I have enjoyed reading all the comments on this post. Many excellent points.

Correct me if I am wrong. Is Anna the first person in the NT to be identified as a prophet?Luke 2:36. I and a lot of others were always taught it was John the Baptist. If it is Anna, then the 1st prophet God used after 400 years of silence is a woman? Would like to know.

Many churches allow women to teach, mine does, they just don’t “ordain” them as pastors, nor do they “allow” women elders. However, the FUNCTIONs of pastors and elders (teaching, caring, leading, setting goals, having visions) are ALL being performed by women, and men are comfortable with it. CONCLUSON: they do not realize that women are actually pastors and elders without the TITLE. They think they are not going against biblical teaching by not having women pastors and elders in title, but they don’t realize that women already FUNCTION as such.

Congratulations, Cheryl. Egalitarians don’t get to read too many good news, so thanks for giving us reason to cheer.
Mabel

Praying.

All the apostles are JEWISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So we should only have Jewish pastors because
apostle = pastors
Who ran Lydia’s church?

Mabel

Mark,
You said, “To me it seems un-practical to be discussing whether we are restricting women’s gifting if we don’t actually have a proper understanding of that which is actually a gift. For example we have many warnings about false prophecy or teaching.”
Are you implying that once we understand what is a true gift, then it is very practical to discuss whether we are restricting women’s gifting?
No one here seems to be confused about true vs false gifting, unless you are implying that certain gifts are gender based, i.e. for men only, and any women who shows those gifts are showing a false gift, while the identical gift, if seen in a man, is a true gift?
Do you think that ” true gift ” = in a man, it is true, and
“false gift” = if in a woman, it is false?
Please look into your heart.
BTW, this issue is discussed to no end only in comfortable, middle / middle upper/ upper class, north American churches. Churches in Hong Kong and China are thriving, and women pastors is a non-issue. Gospels are preached, lives are changed, people are turning to Jesus, sins are repented, relationships are mended, drug habits are kicked, etc. etc. under the leadership of men and women. By their fruits, you know they are REAL!!!!!!!!!
Mark, do you understand? If you only turn your eyes 2 inches away from your hardened biases, you will see the light.
The CBMW is a complete waste of time, energy, resources, and a hindrance to God’s kingdom.

Mabel

I have a few questions for Pastor Mike:
1. Can a woman write a book that contains teachings of the word of God. If she does, can men read her book? If a man reads her book, does that make her a sinner, because she is then teaching the men, not audibly, but visually? Is the bible’s supposed prohibition refer only to “sermons”, “preachings” “teaching” by speaking, but not by writing? And if the prohibition covers writing, shouldn’t there be a disclaimer on the cover of the book “men, do not read” because she does not want to sin by teaching a man through her written word?
2. Similar logic. Can a woman speak of God and all things christian on the radio? what if men are listening to her “teaching” “preaching”, wouldn’t that make her a sinner? If a man wants to listen to her and more importantly, learn from her on the radio, would that not make her a sinner? Some men may not agree with you that they should not listen to a woman “teach” and they gladly listen to, and learn from the woman in the radio broadcast, wouldn’t that make the woman speaker a sinner none the less?
3. How about blogging? Cheryl is clearing teaching the word of God in this blog, and Pastor Mike is reading her blog, isn’t it the same as “listening” to her teach? or is blogging not covered in this prohibition? Maybe “teaching” is only “teaching” if someone is in a “classroom” and there is a black board, and the teacher is standing in front of students, who are sitting down?
4. If there is a “conversation” or “discussion” where matters of the Bible is explained, in a party setting, or during some social function, is that not teaching because it is not in a church, or in a classroom, or comes with an announcement that so and so is “teaching” a class? or it is not covered because the woman is just having a conversation with a man, or men, and she is not standing, on Sunday morning, in a sanctuary, up on a stage, and behind a pulpit? Are these the conditions to be met for that to qualify as a “sermon” and “preaching”? Most people associate a “sermon” with those qualifications.
5. Shouldn’t Jesus make himself more clear when he gave the Great Commission that all (not just men, and correct me if you think Jesus only meant men) should “go and make disciples…and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you…” Should women only lead women to Christ, but men can lead both men and women to Christ? If a woman can lead a man to Christ, and as soon as he is saved, all of a sudden he is to cover up his ears if she begins to explain, or “teach” him the word of God? Is she to, in lightning speed, quickly find a man to do that job lest she sins? didn’t Jesus, in the Great Commission, demands that we “teach…everything He has commanded us”? Are you telling women to disobey the Great Commission? Or is there a blue Great Commission and a Pink Great Commission?

Seriously, I am not being facetious. These are actually questions in my mind that so far, no-one has addressed. Pastor Mike, you are making a christian woman’s life quite impossible, trying to not step on any of these land mines. Unless, if a woman is to just quietly live her life, catering to the husband and raising children, not knowing much, and if she does know something, make sure she is careful where she says them, only participating in a Pink Great Commission, certainly not writing a book, not doing a radio show, and above all, not blogging, and she will be so very virtuous in the eyes of you, but how about in the eyes of God?

Mabel Yin