Mara

Frank quoting Steven: “clinging to the mistaken belief that our well-being is somehow in competition with that others. We are convinced that the progress of another somehow diminishes us.”

This is so, so true. It is such a strong force that it bleeds into our interpretation of the Bible. That place where God tells Eve that her desire or turning will be toward her husband contains NO competion or desiring to rule on her part. Yet men interpret it as that. And some Bible translations have even written it like that. Not because it says it but because this competing for well-being lens is so thick and so distortive in men that male Bible translators see it in the verse when it is not there.

Thank you for bringing it to the fore front. And know that us gals, even when angry at the abuses and Bible distortions of some men, are ever grateful for the men that do get it and are able to put it in these kinds of words, words that men and women can understand.

Thanks to you Amos. Have you ever read “The way church ought to be?

Frank, are both the books you mention from CBE?

Thanks for the welcome.

And yes. That’s the whole thing. They don’t ever have to experience it. They can just talk about it in their sterile, untouchable environments.

There is a huge emotional disconnect between these men and the advice they give women. They have NO empathy and no way of gaining it through living their normal, male life in a male favoring church ensconced in their (false) male favoring doctrine.

We have heard “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” so often. Those words are so much a part of our culture that the fact that they are so profound is nearly lost. And it is completely lost on these men as far as women are concerned. These men would NEVER want done or said to them what they freely and abundantly do and say to women. Never. They’d never stand for it. Yet they hand it out to women because they can. And they continue to do it and increase it because they have gotten away with it for so long. I wish all the women in their churches would wake up and walk out, all at once. I’m not sure anything short of that would get their attention. But I’m not holding my breath.
Those poor women as deceived as the men. But where it raises up men to their benefit, the women are pushed down and oppressed.

I’ve seen this Piper/abuse quote several other places.
The more I read it, the angrier I get.

The Comp position makes it easier and a far cry better for a woman to remain unsaved or to just plain backslide. Then the church can’t say much to her when she responds like a normal human being (in shock and outrage) to her husband’s group sex suggestion. Then the church can’t say much when she refuses to allow herself to be smacked around because she either leaves at first sign of trouble or uses overwhelming violent force back (i.e. gun, knife, fire, whatever it takes to stop the bully who thinks he’s king).

If Piper’s advice truly was the heart of God (WHICH I DON’T BELIEVE FOR A MINUTE) Then it would be better if all women stayed away from church or at the very least, never marry. (Remember the Shakers? They did that.)

I thank God I don’t have to stay way from Him and His true church and marriage because of the lies perpetuated by well-meaning but off-their-rocker preachers like Piper.

Love Kay’s idea. Piper needs to play the part of the “smacked around one” for a night before he gives this advice to others.