allennelson4

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying regarding the work. We must repent and believe. We must come to Christ. And that only happens once God enables His Elect to do so. It’s not that we work and then God is obligated to respond! By no means! I thought I was careful in explaining that, but I guess I wasn’t (see above: “work and obedience flow FROM a changed heart, not to receive a changed heart.” Meaning that God changes our heart and then we come to Christ, partaking of the Bread of Life). The “work” is only in response to the gracious gift of God’s drawing. You must come to Christ, but that is impossible unless the Father first enables you to do so. The rest of the passage completly supports this positon. Noting v.44 “No one CAN…” No one has the ability to “work” or “seek” Jesus, or repent, or come to Christ. They cannont do it, no ability is there. The only way they can partake is if the Father graciously draws them… “So the unconditional certainty of the Giving, and the term for giving, granting, bestowing, rather than the payment of an obligation is used, removes any opportunity to see the giving as a reward for work done.” I agree completely. It is NOT “conditional” in the sense that God is obligated, it’s simply a statement of truth, a reality, only those working for the bread receive it, but no one can work for the bread! No one CAN come! Unless the Father’s draws Him. Those working for the bread receive the bread but they aren’t working for the bread b/c they have the ability to do so! God has enabled them to do so! Again, what you are trying to put forth here makes everyone saved. You say you’re just trying to stick with this verse but if you take it as is with your interpretation it is that Jesus is going to give everyone the bread, and that’s not true, because the bread ENDURES to eternal life. It’s not based on whether or not man wants to “accept” it (i.e. work for it!) It DOES endure! That’s why all the Elect WILL be saved even if their natural dispostion, like all mankind is to not seek God, to reject Him… And this type of theology is pretty offensive. That’s why many disciples left once Jesus explained it clearly cf. v.66

One of the reasons he doesn’t spend so much time on just v.27 is that because it has to be understood in the context of the entire chapter.

In my very first comment I hinted at it being conditional not on the work but on the Father’s election. The “I will give” again is simply a statement of fact that’s connected to those who work for the food that endures to eternal life. Who will actually partake (“work for”) this food? The Elect. Jesus explains in the rest of the chapter.

Thanks! I’m saying you can break it down like this, “work for the food that endures to eternal life which I will give to you” That’s connected. How does the grammar not support that? Yes, I understand that the you is plural but that doesn’t have to mean that Jesus means He’ll give the food to every single person who has ever lived nor does it even mean that the you has to be encompasing of the whole crowd, in fact I think Jesus shows us that it clearly does not encompass the whole crowd but is connected to the ones who will “work for the food” Of course I do not mean that it takes “work” to get to Jesus. Jesus “gives” Himself freely, in an effectual salvific way, to the Father’s Elect. I think it fits with the rest of NT theology that tells us work and obedience flow FROM a changed heart, not to receive a changed heart. Remember He says food ENDURES to eternal life, not that it may or may not, but that it DOES. If He GIVES this food (which ENDURES to eternal life) to all, then how are not all saved? What exactly is the difference between the fact that crowd does not “get” the food but they will be “given” the food? Sounds like just semantics. My take is that there are some in the crowd that Jesus would give eternal life to but not all. I think that’s supported by this verse and the surrounding context.

It is very clear from this verse that the food is not being given to all, but only those who “work” for the food which endures to eternal life. If your exegesis is correct then EVERYONE gets the food that endures to eternal life! No, Jesus doesn’t say “if you work, I’ll give” but He is saying His giving of the food is contengent on those working for the food which endures to eternal life. Now, let’s get really calvinistic here! The seeking is not of a man’s on “will” but of the will of the Father. I appreciate what you are trying to do by “breaking this down” but you’re missing the point of this verse by not taking it in its full context.

Is the “i will give” conditional on those the Father has chosen? Check out v.44 and it’s connection w/ v54, just because a verb is future indicative doesn’t mean it’s not conditional on something. What if in this verse it’s conditional on the “work”? You “work” and I will give… At first sounds like a works salvation! But, what if the “work” is connected to the “seek” in verse 26? So the “work” is seeking Jesus. Makes a whole lot of sense in connection with Jesus’ talk about “coming to Him” and the Father “drawing people to Him” Anyway, some things to think about, thanks for the convo…