pinklight

Uh, I think the whole idea of this authority thing forced over and against a wife’s will is just creepy. Well when one really thinks about it, as the article above helps one to do, put on the table it just looks so creepy. Granted it’s a programmed frame of mind and traditional mentality that people fall into or are forced into…but still, it’s just hard to look at for what it is. So going to a positive note because this one is too much for me right now…

Sacrificial service on the other hand is a beatutiful thing, giving up is better than receiving and it’s enjoyable to give and give up and the other benefits too by getting their needs met! I feel better…  🙂

Paula you soo cute! 😉

Paula:
But what’s even worse, IMO, is when malice is cloaked as fake “concern”. Christianity has become more pretense than substance.

Just give me a stomach ache…I’m personaly disturbed about this.

Cheryl:
1. If one person willingly submits his will to that of another person because they are of one will in the first place, is that person’s being diminished in any way?

Answer: It is impossible for there to be “one will” if one is submitting his will to another. The fact that one has to submit his will proves that there is not one will but two wills with one will subordinated to the other.

Paula:
1. If one person willingly submits his will to that of another person because they are of one will in the first place, is that person’s being diminished in any way?

This is a logical impossibility. If they are of one will in the first place, then one cannot “submit” their identical will to the other. As God, both the Father and Son (and of course the Spirit) have one will. That makes eternal subordination of any of them impossible.

Only in the case of two different wills can we ask whether the submitter is “diminished”. If both beings are equal in being, then permanent and involuntary submission would indeed be a case of inequality and thus “diminishing”. In other words, it is impossible for equal beings to be permanently unequal in role, when one role has authority over the other. One being cannot be in a state of permanent and involuntary subordination to an equal being.

My response:
Thank you both Cheryl and Paula. The answers you gave were extremely clear and simple, so much so that there could be no confusion on this point.

Thanks Cheryl! I’d love to post it! Here it is!

Vision: The Flying Ship

28th April 2007

A few days ago, as I prayed, I saw this vision.

There was a famine of the Word in America. There was no choice food anywhere in America. People were consuming very poor quality food.

They were eating food that looked like the half-chewed food thrown into dustbins.

There was no nutritious food anywhere to be found. The food people ate barely helped them survive. It was a pitiable sight. Wherever I looked, within this vision, in America, all I saw was people eating very poor quality food.

I despaired. Where is the food? I thought. If things continued this way, I saw that the people would die of mal-nourishment.

It was truly a most pitiable sight.

Next:
I saw many ships from around the world, heading towards America with food. It seemed like they would take a while to reach the American shores.

But then I saw a HUGE Ship, which emerged from the sky. It had overtaken all the ships in the sea. It was leaping over the American skies. Many looked up and saw it. They knew that the Ship carried fresh food supplies. The ENTIRE SHIP WAS FILLED WITH RICH FOOD.

These in America, who looked up and saw the Ship, expected it to land in America.

I too thought within the vision, that this Ship would land in America.

I was sure that God had Seen the condition of the people, how they were eating left-overs from dustbins, and other value-less, unhealthy, lacking-in-nourishment-food.

The Ship most definitely looked like it was heading America-ward.The people who were looking up, saw the Huge Ship whizz past, over them. They despaired that the Ship had not landed on American soil. The Ship had simply whizzed past, over them.

Much to my amazement, I saw that the SHIP FLEW OVER ALL THE LAND OF AMERICA AND LANDED IN CANADA.

The food was off-loaded here, and the rich, nourishing food would be sent to America, by God’s Chosen, IN CANADA. Those commissioned by the Lord, already knew this and met the Ship, which landed not in the sea, but on land. Immediately those commissioned of the Lord were at the work of sorting out the food, to send on-ward to America. Within the vision, I saw these worked non-stop, speedily and diligently, and did not lose focus.

The food on this Ship was solely for America, but it was those Chosen of God IN CANADA, who would send it forth to America.

What I understood is that this refers to THE TRUE NOURISHING, RESUSCITATING FOOD that the Chosen of God would off load from the Ship and re-direct to different places in America.

There is no doubt the false is in Canada, too. We need to continue to discern.

This vision is not referring to that. It is only referring to the TRUE NOURISHING FOOD THAT THE CHOSEN OF THE LORD IN CANADA,COMMISSIONED TO DO THIS EXACT WORK, WILL BE USED TO SEND ON TO AMERICA.

Ezekiel 17:24 (King James Version)
24And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.

Bombay-India
Swarna Jha
http://www.visionsoftheseer.blogspot.com

After I saw the vision and stopped trying to figure out why the Ship landed in Canada, with food meant for America, I felt such a great and inexpressible joy in my spirit. I felt so re-assured. I wept again, but this time my tears were of joy and not sorrow or grief.

I praise and magnify the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, King of Kings, Lord of Lords. What a Mighty God we serve.

It’s like a ‘titanic’ (huge ship) coming.

There was a prophecy made last year about food coming from Canada being ‘shipped’ to the US…

How exciting! 🙂

[quote]“My biggest issue with the particular label “complementarianism” is, not only is it an invented word, …”

What did we call it before?[/quote]
Patriarchy before complementarianism.

Cheryl:
‘Christ then is the “head” of all husbands. Christ is the “source” or “origin” of all husbands. Now Paul is not saying that Christ is “head” only of men or husbands because Christ certainly is “head” of the wives too, but I believe that Paul is emphasizing a special relationship between Christ and the husband. We will talk more about the implications of this later, but for the time being perhaps you would like to give your thoughts on why God inspired the word “aner” to be used twice in verse 3 instead of the generic term for mankind that would normally include women.’

I don’t have any thoughts on why Paul used ‘aner’ twice, other than I’ve taken Christ is the head of every ‘aner’ to mean every person instead of every husband. Did you cover more on this? I haven’t seen it if you have. I wanted to hear more about it if and when you have the time. That Christ is the head , ‘origin’ of EVERY ‘husband’ just isn’t clicking in my brain. From what I’ve been told, it can mean every person?

‘Suzanne, that’s an excellent point. It appears that when it works in favor of the premise that woman is subordinate to man, it’s just fine to tell the man to presume to the place of Christ, as in be an “authority over” his wife because Christ is the Authority over the church. But then, when it suits their purpose, they claim that Christ the Son is eternally subordinate to the Father, and so THEN women must be the analogs of Jesus.’

Psalmist,
EXCATLY! Excellent! 🙂

[quote]By the way, I’m a man who’s rejected a patriarchal model of Holy Writ as untenable by reason , common sense, and objective scholarship.[/quote]

Thanks, Greg Anderson. 🙂

Paula, can you please provide a link to your blog here? I didn’t see it above.

‘And I agree that a public correction is the only option here.’

Nothing to be afraid of in the light.

Greg Anderson:
‘History does repeat itself in cycles though, and I do see the complementarians breaking off and creating a kind of eastern empire, much in the same way Constantine did in the 4th century.’

Greg, there is something happening, some kind of ‘break off’. Don’t know exactly what it is but something….at least as far as I can see. Wish I could see more or understand better.

‘Cheryl, I was very sorry to read Kamilla’s response. I thought your rules of engagment were very protective for her. And I agree that a public correction is the only option here. We must all test everthing taught and be Bereans.’

Lin, I thought they were protective too and I agree with the public ‘correction’. Most would like to be corrected privately, and understandably so. When one doesn’t mind a public ‘correction’, well that can say alot of things…best of all accountability could be in operation in such an enviroment.

Light, thanks for expressing what you did. I wanted to express the same.

K, I laughed out loud over there in that kingdom, and was banned untell the 30th. This one poster had me in hysterics.

I had commented on what the comp position seems to amount to that is being male, gender, nothing else and that the woman’s gifts, knowledge, abilities, education etc amounts to nothing as she must be under a man. So a poster responds something like ‘it’s okay if the woman is preaching a message on stage, as long as a man is up there with her, even if it’s the janitor’, and I put up three laugh faces in response, (couldn’t stop laughing out loud) and was shut down, shut down for not being soo serious.

Least I can laugh here!

‘His kingdom’, LOL Another good one, Paula.

‘These are things that happen when one has authority without accountability. We are supposed to accept that this is how God wants his church run too.’

Thanks for pointing that out.

‘Oh boy, this is so far off the way of our Lord and Master that honestly I am wondering how living under the Taliban might not be any different. Jesus never led his disciples to act this way. I am so sorry that you and other egalitarians have been treated to this abuse. Lord Jesus, I pray that you will right the wrongs and bring good out of the evil that has been done in your name.’
I pray too. Amen.

I asked why I couldn’t give links in my posts but others could. I DID NOT understand this. So when a poster tried to help me understand why, they got banned. Then next I was told I couldn’t ‘question’ their descions, as if I were questioning their authority. All I did was question about that which I could not comprehend.

And because the person keeps banning people who question her authority. Another was banned tonight.

On one hand because the CARM moderator has been calling us witches, liberals, lost, idiots, having idiotic arguments, etc etc, I’m thinking maybe this person shouldn’t be replied to at all anymore.

I would like to be able to post comments after the airing. Why was the thread deleted?

What you posted on Matt’s discussion board has disappeared. Huh?

[quote]What surprised me is how widespread this belief has become in the complementarian camp that the Son in the Trinity (not the incarnation) is not equal with the Father. I sent these same audio files to a staunch complementarian couple because I thought they would be as appalled as I was to hear this downgrading of Jesus. To my utter amazement, they said that they didn’t hear anything wrong in what Burk said, yet I know that the husband himself had always used Philippians 2 to prove the Deity of Jesus with Jehovah’s Witnesses. But through the years somewhere they had picked up the thought that Jesus was not equal with the Father. It is time that this nonsense is stopped and Jesus again has his rightful place alongside the Father.[/quote]

AMEN!

Overjoyed! Want to contain myself! 🙂

‘Falling off my chair!’ Can’t take it! 🙂

[quote]Matt has been speaking against me publicly since September when we had our radio debate. So here is what the radio station has agreed to do – they are giving me free air time for 4 consecutive weeks in February where they are going to play the audio of my “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” DVDs. The DVDs are 3.5 hours of teaching verse by verse on all the hard passages of scripture on the women’s issue. So while Matt is desperately trying to stop women in ministry, his very actions have brought about a public playing of the DVDs that he considers “dangerous” to the church. Matt hates my DVDs so much that he had all reference to the DVDs removed from the audio that he posted on his web site from the second debate I had with him in September. But God is good! He knows how to frustrate the plans of those who try to “suppress the truth in unrighteousness”.[/quote]

I’m speechlees………………………:):):)

Paula,

What’s contemplative prayer and spiritual formation?

🙂

I don’t want to change the subject here but what are the thoughts behind male domination (which has reaped a reinterpretation of the Trinity (!) of all things, the most important doctrine (!) leading to the rise of the anti-christ? I’ve heard of it before and it occured to me before I had read about such.

Seeker