Winger openly admits he uses reason to discover truth but not to determine it; Sye argues this distinction shows reason is not autonomous — which is the presup point

Winger distinguishes between using reason to discover truth (acceptable) and reason to determine/decide what is true (not acceptable). He agrees that both believers' and unbelievers' reasoning is dependent on God. Sye says this concession is exactly the presuppositional point — if unbelievers' reason is dependent on God, they cannot be granted autonomous reason as a starting point in apologetics. He also points to 1 Corinthians 15 as an example of Paul using conditional 'if' statements not to grant unbeliever premises but as rhetorical judgment.