Mark

1. “No. Romans 1:18 doesn’t say that all men suppress the truth. But the passage says that those who deliberately suppress the truth, God gives them up. Here is a description of them:
   Romans 1:26–27 (NASB)
   26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
   27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
   Are you in this group? Were you given up to degrading passions and did you burn in your desire for other men? No? Then this passage is not about all people, but about those who purposely suppress the truth. I didn’t do that and likely you didn’t either.”

Why stop at verse 27 Cheryl…let’s keep going
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Surely you and I have both coveted, surely we have both been slanderers and gossips and boastful etc. This is the nature of humanity not just one specific group. Sexual sins are just one aspect of our fallen humanity. We are depraved creatures- totally. You are wrong to say this is just one specific group of people. Isaiah 53:6 sums it up nicely- we all like sheep have gone astray and turned to our own ways.

I can’t show you that Cornelius was born again- I don’t deny that. But not every conversion in the bible says ‘and they were born again before they believed’. We don’t always have every detail for every occasion. The problem is though to say that we don’t need to be born again contradicts Jn 3, and contradictions are not acceptable. You have swept it away be changing what born again means and what the kingdom is.

Now about being a child of God. I have agreed with you that we are children of God once we believe. However like I said Romans 8 and Eph 1 also talk about this being God’s choice or plan before the foundation of the world. So although we were enemies of God before believing, we were always planned to be children of God. Our union with Christ has been layed down from the beginning. Do you understand what I mean?

You still haven’t answered how you pray for your un christian friends- you dodged it. Also please explain your idea of God’s sovereignty? Do you believe God is sovereign in that he made himself vulnerable in creating the world like many do?

You said “No it is not. Being born again is a miraculous work that transforms and renews and brings God’s life to a heart that was separated from God and lost in sin. It is opening of the eyes. It is a transformation.”

Now the funny thing is I agree with this. We are lost in sin, we are dead. We are totally seperated from God. Therefore how do we accept the message of salvation. It is interesting that you say it is opening of the eyes. Look what I said just before you said ‘No it is not”
Being ‘born-again’ is God opening their eyes to the message of the cross.
Inconsistency??? You can’t say to me I’m wrong and then in your definition say the same thing. I’m confused. If you truly believe your description how then can people still accept the message of salvation without being born again? You keep saying that being born again before faith is unscriptural yet you have not dealt with Jn 3. Perhaps we should discuss that more?

Let me get something straight. You agree that Romans 14 is saying in the context of believers that everything not done in faith is sin? Yet you disagree that unbelievers (who have no faith in Christ) are not doing everything in sin. Here is my opinion for what it is worth. Everything any of us does is sin unless God gives us grace. It is only be grace that unbelievers do good things. It is only by grace that believers do good things- this is common grace to all of us. People can do good things (like the Pharisees) because God is gracious to them. However it is still not done in faith in God.

“God just hates kind unbelievers, right?”
I don’t believe God hates unbelievers. Ezekial 18:23 tells us that he does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked. But we must remember God is Holy. When we sin, we sin against a infinite Holy God. If we do not do things in faith then it is sin. This is why the fall of Adam and Eve was so disasterous.

1. “Now show me a verse that says that God will only allow some to seek Him and Him and most He will purposely stop them from seeking Him and purposely stop them from finding Him although He demands that they seek Him? Go ahead and show me where only some are enabled to seek God.”

I have agreed with you all along that we are all called to seek after God. But how can we as sinners. Again Romans 3 says none seeks after God. This is why we are held accountable. God demands that we seek him, but in our sinfulness we don’t. This is why Jesus words are so important.
Joh 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Only when God grants it, can sinners come to Jesus. We cannot seek God by ourselves. Now do you believe that God has granted EVERYONE in this verse to come to Jesus?
Also think about why Jesus spoke in Parables
Mat 13:11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Mat 13:12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Mat 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Mat 13:14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: “‘You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.
Mat 13:15 For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

A few important things here. He spoke in parables so people WOULD NOT understand, lest they turn. Also many prophets and RIGHTEOUS people longed to hear the truth of Jesus but did not. Not everyone is giving the same grace by God to seek after him. I wait for your reply since the bible clearly answers your challenge.

‘You just contradicted yourself. You said that faith is not a work, then you said that our faith is a works based salvation. Either faith is a work or it is not.’

Here is my conviction because you seem confused. Saving faith is a gift therefore faith is not a work. When we deny that saving faith is a gift, then we make it into a work. See the difference? Faith becomes a work for those who reject it as a gift of God.

Semi-pelagianism was condemned, that is reality. It denied that our salvation was fully the work of God. It denied that faith, repentance etc are the gracious gifts of God. It maintained that we as fallen people still have the capacity (with a little bit of God’s help but not all) to come after and seek God. It is the same old problem that the church has faced. How free-will and God’s sovereignty go hand in hand. Maybe you can clearly outline how you see salvation works? Give me a clear step by step outline of how and when God works and how and when human free-will works. Perhaps then I will understand more your view.

“Scripture doesn’t say that faith is a gift of God to unbelievers. If so, please show me where it says this.”

Eph 2 says that we were dead in sin. BUT, God made us alive in Christ. How? By grace you have been saved through faith- AND THIS IS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is a GIFT of God.
Faith is a part of our salvation process- it is the very means by how we are saved. If grace is a gift given to unbelievers in this verse, how is faith not also given to unbelievers?

“What I have seen from reading these books is a God who has mercy on so few yet the Scriptures tell me that God is rich in mercy.’

I agree that God is rich in mercy- none of us deserve to be saved, we have all fallen short of the glory of God have we not? But still only a limited number of people are saved. Even you believe this because you are not a universalist. You can’t discredit Calvinists because they believe that a limited number are saved. Any evangelical believes that, reformed or not.

“And another thing I notice about the Scriptures is that God freely gives His lovingkindness toward those who fear Him.”

I agree!

“Should we say that those who “fear God” are doing a works based salvation? Should we say that God gives the “gift” of fear to some? No. Fearing God is faith in God and it is our response, not a gift reserved for an elite few.”

If we say that fearing God saves us and that it is in our own strength, then yes it is works based. But the scripture never saids that. David is a great example of all this. He was a God fearing man, he worshiped God, he loved God. Yet he continually asked that God would enable him to do this. See Psalm 119. Here is just a snipet
Psa 119:33 Teach me, O LORD, the way of your statutes; and I will keep it to the end.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, that I may keep your law and observe it with my whole heart.
Psa 119:35 Lead me in the path of your commandments, for I delight in it.
Psa 119:36 Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!
Psa 119:37 Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things; and give me life in your ways.
Psa 119:38 Confirm to your servant your promise, that you may be feared.
Psa 119:39 Turn away the reproach that I dread, for your rules are good.
Psa 119:40 Behold, I long for your precepts; in your righteousness give me life!
David didn’t trust in his own fear or faith or ability. He knew all these things were the gift of God. He prayed to his Father that God may continue to bless him with those things. This is the reformed position in a nutshell. We look to God for everything, not trusting in our own strength, and we recognise that God grants things in his sovereign will to some and not others. But we dare never look to our own strength and ability nor should we think we know who God bestows his gifts too. That is for Him to know not for us to judge.

Anyway I need to take a break. I’l let you catch up before I comment again.