Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
You said:

Therefore to deny that saving faith is in itself not a gracious gift of God necessitates that it is something we do without the help of God.

Who is claiming that our faith is “without the help of God”? It isn’t me. We are required to believe, but God is the one who draws us so it is never without the help of God. When you say things like this, I wonder why you do this? Have you accepted a false view of non-Calvinism from those who wish to separate from their brothers and sisters in Christ?

This therefore is a work since it comes from our doing and not God’s.

This is illogical. You are defining faith as having nothing at all to do with us. Faith then is God’s belief in Himself that He gives to us. But God can’t believe for us and He cannot respond for us. If faith were someone else believing for you, then why can’t our faith save our brother?

I am defining faith as something that we do in response to God’s immense amount of work in our lives. It is a response that we give to God. It is demanded of us and only our own personal response is valid. God simply cannot believe for us.

You cannot say that the faith that saves us is not a gift of God, unless you can prove biblically how this is not a work of man to earn salvation.

Mark, we already defined saving faith as not a work. I don’t need to prove it isn’t a work because we have already both agreed that saving faith is not a work.

If we say that it is our own faith (with no gift from God) then we have every reason to boast since we have chosen wisely when others have not. This I reject.

This is where you are wrong because it is not “saving faith” that is the cause for boasting. It is “salvation” that could be a cause for boasting if one worked for it. But since we already defined saving faith as not a work and since there is nothing that one can do to earn salvation, your comments are illogical.

One interesting note here is that Calvinsts often say that their faith in God’s gift of faith causes them alone to not have pride. Yet Calvinists regularly struggle with pride since their boast is that God picked them while rejecting others. In fact John Piper a famous Calvinist here in North America is taking 8 months off of ministry because of pride issues that have hurt his wife and others in ministry. My son met him last year and could see the pride in him while people were fawning over him. My son asked him about this and Piper poked his finger in my son’s chest. No pride there? Highly unlikely.

But for me knowing that God has drawn me to Jesus, He has paid the price that I could not even lift a finger to pay and that nothing I could do could earn salvation, leaves me nothing to have pride over. I am a sinner saved by God’s grace alone through God’s requirement that I believe Him. I have done that because God has proven Himself faithful. I can’t help by believe because His character is so awesome, His love so amazing and His grace so freely given that I have believed his word and fallen in love with Him because of who He is, not because of who I am of what I have done. That is Sovereign grace.

I have done nothing greater than anybody- God has simply shown me grace in giving me his gift of salvation and faith. I have nothing to boast in of myself, I can only boast in God’s mercy.

But for Calvinists you can boast that God loves you and doesn’t love a lot of others – at least not with saving love. I can’t say that for God was willing to have saving love for all because He sent Jesus to die for all. You can look around and say that in a crowd of unbelievers that God loved me more than He loved them. I am special to Him for whatever reason. While you may not know the reason why He chose you, the fact that He chose you and you are one of the elite elect chose out of all humanity makes you have lots to boast amongst those that God doesn’t love. Don’t you see how that could cause many like Piper to be prideful?

Now also since repentance is required for salvation and as 2 Tim 3 says even that is a gift of God, no-one can repent nor have faith unless God grants it to them otherwise they have room to boast of their own salvation.

The Bible says that repentance is “granted” and God grants repentance to anyone who will fear Him. It is always conditional and it is always dependent on the faithfulness of God to make sure that no one who fears God is left without salvation.

Please explain how you can have faith (which is not a gift from God) and it not be a work. If it does not stem from God then it is something we do correct?

I can have faith because God has shown Himself to me and revealed enough about Himself that I believe Him. It is God’s work to reveal Himself and God’s work to draw me and God’s work to save me. My faith is not a work because saving faith is never a work. It is the very opposite of works.

Mark, why have you been deceived to believe that saving faith is a work in some people when the Scriptures always set faith in opposition to works? Somebody has twisted your head around so that you do not even seen how you flip flop back and forth. “saving faith is a work” and “no, saving faith is not a work”. How could anyone accept Calvinism with this kind of inconsistency and illogical thinking?