Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
You said:

Now about being a child of God. I have agreed with you that we are children of God once we believe. However like I said Romans 8 and Eph 1 also talk about this being God’s choice or plan before the foundation of the world. So although we were enemies of God before believing, we were always planned to be children of God. Our union with Christ has been layed down from the beginning. Do you understand what I mean?

I understand your doctrine, but it a “theory” that has no Biblical basis. The Bible doctrine has us believing God and only believers are ever predestined to be conformed to Christ. It is God’s choice to offer salvation because only He can offer and only He can create new life. But God is not restricted so that He cannot offer salvation conditioned on faith. God has choices and He has shown us His choice in the Scriptures.

You still haven’t answered how you pray for your un christian friends- you dodged it.

I did answer that question in this thread although I didn’t answer it right away. Sometimes busyness causes me to be behind in answering questions. I don’t ever “dodge” questions. If I don’t know the answer, I just say so. I actually quite like questions. I am not saying that you “dodge” questions but you have so many questions that you haven’t answered, that if we were going to speculate on the dodger in our midst, I think you’d get a few votes. Now, I am not speculating on that. But perhaps you should have a little more patience with me too, eh?

Also please explain your idea of God’s sovereignty? Do you believe God is sovereign in that he made himself vulnerable in creating the world like many do?

I believe that God has full and complete Sovereign choice to do anything that He wants to do that is not against His nature. He can create a world where He gives man the ability to choice between several options that God sets up for man. That is God’s Sovereign choice and I am amazed whenever someone states that God cannot do certain things as if they can control and limit God. I don’t think that God can be controlled and limited by anything other than His own nature and His own choice. Do you agree?

You said “No it is not. Being born again is a miraculous work that transforms and renews and brings God’s life to a heart that was separated from God and lost in sin. It is opening of the eyes. It is a transformation.”

Now the funny thing is I agree with this. We are lost in sin, we are dead. We are totally seperated from God. Therefore how do we accept the message of salvation. It is interesting that you say it is opening of the eyes. Look what I said just before you said ‘No it is not”
Being ‘born-again’ is God opening their eyes to the message of the cross.

Sorry, I mistyped. What I meant to say that “No it is not opening of the eyes. It is a transformation.” I guess I should always reread what I have typed because sometimes the fingers are faster than the brain (or is it vice versa?)

Being born again is a completely miraculous even where a person becomes a new creature and they are born of God’s seed and born from above into God’s kingdom. It is never called having their eyes opened.

Inconsistency??? You can’t say to me I’m wrong and then in your definition say the same thing. I’m confused.

Sorry about that bloke. I missed a word in typing. I wasn’t meaning to twist around your head. Still friends?

You keep saying that being born again before faith is unscriptural yet you have not dealt with Jn 3. Perhaps we should discuss that more?

John 3:6 …that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Being born of the Spirit is the seed of God. I have already dealt with this and you have not answered. Having the seed of God is being in the family of God. It is impossible for a person at the moment of being born again to be unsaved. The Spirit does not give birth to one who is not a child of God.

Let me get something straight. You agree that Romans 14 is saying in the context of believers that everything not done in faith is sin? Yet you disagree that unbelievers (who have no faith in Christ) are not doing everything in sin.

The context is about a believer partaking in something that is going against his/her conscience. There is nothing in that passage that would make this being about unbelievers.

Here is my opinion for what it is worth. Everything any of us does is sin unless God gives us grace. It is only be grace that unbelievers do good things.

This is a hypothesis but it isn’t going through the Scripture to see what it says. Sorry bud, but opinions will never equal to the inspired Word. Why don’t you just go through the passage carefully and figure out what the text is exactly saying?

I don’t believe God hates unbelievers.

Well it is good to know that you have not believed the teaching that God has created people that He has chosen to unconditionally hate.

More in the next comment box.