Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
You said:

It is interesesting that you do not believe that free-will and God’s sovereignty do not go hand in hand.

I didn’t say that. God Sovereignty gives Him the right to allow people to chose while He decides the ultimate outcome. It is God’s way.

Let me ask who sold Joseph and sent him to Egypt.

Joseph’s brothers sold Joseph, but God sent him to Egypt. God sent the men who bought Joseph and He Sovereignly had Joseph delivered there.

OR again, who crucified Christ?

God Sovereignly delivered Jesus up to be crucified.

According to the gospel many people used their ‘wills’ to kill Jesus. >

These ones wanted to kill Jesus many times, but Jesus merely walked away from their trap. It wasn’t until it was God’s time, that the God allowed them to finish what their evil hearts had started. God did not put murder into their hearts, but allowed them to do what He willed.

So Cheryl, you are wrong. Men were guilty in both cases for their free-will, but clearly in both cases it happened according to God’s sovereign will and plan.

What you have forgotten is that God uses evil for His purposes, but He does not entice people to do the evil. God is able to direct the evil so that it accomplishes His purpose.

This is why it is indeed a ‘mystery’, but the raw facts of the Bible teach the tension.

It isn’t a mystery now. It has been revealed.

Pinklight,

I really do want you or Kay or Cheryl to use scripture to show me your doctrines. Rather than just criticising what i am saying, how about you guys share your theology and see how ‘consistent’ with the Bible it is.

It is an amazing thing that you don’t pay any attention to all the Scripture that I have used, and you have many questions you have not answered. To say that I don’t use Scripture to prove my point is really a bad move. It makes your eyes look like they have been blinded to everything but your own view.

Kay’s definition of sovereignty is not even in the Bible, mine is. Cheryl didn’t even give her definition,

I did give you my definition but since I have been behind, it may not have been as quick as you would like.