Cheryl Schatz

Mark you said:

I agree with you that people cannot come to God because they do not love Him. But I guess the difference is because I believe that unregenerate people are unable (Rom 8:6-7 makes that clear).

It is clear that some people who had not yet come to Christ loved God. No all who are unregenerate are haters of God. But we can look at this passage when we get to Romans.

However yo have still failed to show where the Bible teaches prevenient grace to therefore show people are able to do things which you believe are required.

The term prevenient grace is not in the Scriptures, but it is clear that people who love God and do what is right are not able to do these things without God’s help. Call God’s enabling whatever you want, but if the Bible says that some feared God long before they came to faith in Christ, then cannot we both agree that it isn’t a case of only human ability but God’s enabling this kind of obedience? Well unless you believe that we are all able to do what is right without God’s help but that doesn’t seem to be your position.

I disagree however with all the conditions you are adding onto salvation. Initally you just said faith but now you have extended that several fold all BEFORE one is even saved.

I didn’t give conditions for salvation, but conditions that God gives for the Father giving people to Jesus. If there are no conditions of obedience to the Word of the Father before one is given to the Son, then all you will have to do to disprove this is to show one person who is given to Christ who is a God-hater. I would sure be interested in seeing such an example.

For example here are your own words of conditions one must meet before being allowed to come to God- “practise the truth”, “have God’s word abide in them”, “have the love of God”, “seek God’s glory”, “refuse to believe”.

Huh? Refuse to believe? And again you apparently have a bit of a problem in understanding the difference between those who can hear and believe the message even though they had been unfaithful and practicers of evil and those who are “given” to Jesus.

So whats that…5 extra conditions one must meet before they are allowed to be saved. Please explain how you do not teach a works based gospel?

So show me where I said there are conditions that one must meet before they are allowed to be saved? Did I not clearly say that these were conditions for one being “given” to Jesus thus showing that these ones actually “belonged” to the Father so that they could be given to Jesus from those whom He owned?

Are you really trying to understand me or am I the one at fault for saying it the wrong way? If it is me, then please provide a quote instead of just summing up your view of what I said because you are not terribly good at summarizing my position. Maybe you will get better in the future 🙂

To be continued…