Cheryl Schatz

Mark you quoted me and then said:

“We can pray that a person will be brought to the place of repentance, but repentance is something that the person themselves must do. And if the person rejects God Himself, he may not be granted repentance just like Esau.”

First, I would like you to be consistent In your claim of seeking the truth of the ispired grammar and actually deal with 2 Tim 2:25. If God has granted everyone the ability to repent (as you believe) why does Paul tell Timothy to ask God to grant it to certain people.

Mark, why don’t you read the quote you just made from me again> I appears that you have not really read the quote carefully. Did I or did I not say that Esau was not granted repentance? If I said that some may not be granted repentance like Esau, then how can you say that I believe that God grants everyone the ability to repent? Does this mean that you didn’t actually read what I wrote or are you purposely trying to misrepresent me? I have no ability to judge your motives so I will let you tell us all why you quoted me and then misrepresented me?

Next are you asking me to be consistent in saying that God grants all to come to repentance when this is not what I believe? We simply cannot take advantage of God’s grace. The Bible says that “now” is the day of salvation and those who disregard God’s good gift and think that they have the ability to come whenever they want even after rejecting God over and over again – they are not guaranteed an ability to come to repentance. They may have received God’s grace in the beginning, but they will not end up with grace and God granting them “repentance” if they continue to harden their hearts.

Isn’t Timothy praying for something that God has already done?

No. Some have walked away from the light that God gives everyone and the darkness that they walk in now cannot allow their eyes to be opened without the grace of God. And God has chosen the time when they will no longer have repentance. I saw this time and time again working with Jehovah’s Witnesses and with witnessing to them. I saw some given more than enough to bring them to repentance and they even shook with fear at what they were being shown, but they turned away from the light that God gave them and even though they were once granted repentance, they refused God’s light.

Also note the inspired grammar that siads God “grants them repentance” not “the ability to repent”. Repentance itself is something God grants- it is a gift.

This is what the Scripture says:

2 Timothy 2:25 (NASB)
25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

If this was just a “gift” from God then there would be no need to correct these ones. But the fact that the granting of repentance is after the gentleness and correction shows that the “granting of repentance” is an opening of one’s eyes to understand the lie so that one can repent. Once one repents of the lie, one can be lead into the knowledge of the truth.

Again I saw this in my work with JW’s. Often it is easier and the best to correct the lie first before the person can accept the truth. Is this just a “gift” dropped into the person that causes repentance? That isn’t the intent of the passage. It is God’s work through correction that wil open one’s eyes to the lie. That “opening of the eyes” that is a gift from God to the person who is believing in a lie, allowing their minds to see how they have been deceived. But just because a godly Christian brought gentle correction to them and they repented of the lie that they had been entangled in, doesn’t mean that God is not involved and the person could have their eyes opened without God’s work. Not at all. When God opens one’s mind to the truth about “the lie” it is a gift and it is how God “grants” repentance, for no one entangled in the lie can repent without his eyes opened to the lie. Does this make sense?

Second your own argument about Esau falls apart since the text you sight saids that Esau “sought for repentance with tears”. Why wasn’t he forgiven then? He sought repentance with tears! Clearly though it was not ‘granted’ by God to him.

Yes clearly repentance was not granted to him. Why? Because his eyes had already been opened to the importance of his birthright, but the Bible tells us that Esau despised it.

Genesis 25:32–34 (NASB)
32 Esau said, “Behold, I am about to die; so of what use then is the birthright to me?”
33 And Jacob said, “First swear to me”; so he swore to him, and sold his birthright to Jacob.
34 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and lentil stew; and he ate and drank, and rose and went on his way. Thus Esau despised his birthright.

To despise means to have contempt for something. If Esau deliberately despised his birthright only to think that he could turn around later and ask think that it was no problem to get it back, did God have the right to refuse to grant Esau repentance? I believe that God had the complete right to withhold from Esau the allowing of his repentance. But not granting repentance to one who was deliberate in his distain for his birthright does not mean that God refuses to grant repentance to others for no reason at all? Or do you see God this way, one who arbitrarily withholds his blessing? Is this what you love about Calvinism? Are you greatly loving and enjoying the idea that God chose you without the condition of faith and rejected so many others without any condition of their sins?