Mark

Cheryl,

Thanks for the replies. I want comment extensively until you finish dealing with the exegetical issues i have raised in Eph 2.

Also, alot of your comments about what i believe confused me. Can you state what it is you think i am saying about Eph 2.

Finally about the issue of ‘conditions’ that i raised in relation to John 6. You said very clearly that people had to be like A or do A before the Father ‘gives’ them to Jesus. Now you agreed that the passage is saying that all the Father gives ‘come’ to Jesus- that is they believe. So ‘giving’ comes before believing according to the verse. So if you say there are conditions for giving, it inevitably means condiitons have to be met before believing (since giving comes before believing). So you need to reconcile for me how that is not works based, because these conditions are not just faith. They are conditions that need to be met before ‘giving’, thus before faith and before coming/believing.

Thanks