Cheryl Schatz

Mark,

You said:

“So why is it that God did not take the complete payment of Jesus at the cross and put it to your account at the time that Jesus died? Was His payment not full and complete at that time?”

Let me try to say things again. I’m not sure if you don’t actually understand what I am saying since you keep asking me the same questions.

I believe that the atonement of Christ was effective for what he came to achieve.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am not asking you what the atonement was to achieve, but when this achievement came. I asked you if the atonement was achieved for you on the cross. Do I need me to rephrase this one again, or do you understand me now?

That is, he did not atone just to make salvation ‘possible’, but he atoned to make salvation effective. It is through the atonement that salvation becomes effective and purposeful.

So do you believe that you were “saved” at the cross? That your sins were forgiven before you were born?

I reject the Arminian position (now I dunno if you agree with classical arminianism) because it only makes salvation ‘possible’. It didn’t actually achieve anything.

I have just started to study the classical Arminian position, however I have not seen anywhere that it is said that the atonement on the cross did not pay for the sins of the world. If salvation is “only possible” but not fully paid for on the cross, then at what time is salvation paid for? It appears to me that you are not understanding that opposing position since it appears clear that Jesus died for the sins of the world not that He died for the sins of a few.

For an Arminian what makes the atonement actually achieve anything is my own act of autonomous faith- not God’s predetermined plan to save me.

I guess we now know why you misrepresent Arminians – from your testimony, you just don’t understand.

More to come…