Cheryl Schatz

Mark, you quoted me and then replied:

“How is it that those who have never had their sins atoned for are commanded to believe (apply) the atonement? Do you not see a contradiction here?”

Not at all. People are born with a corrupt sinful nature that equals eternal punishment. Now if God does not give them the gift of repentance and faith they will be condemned for their unbelief. Like I said earlier, God is not obligated to save anyone- it’s based on mercy and grace not obligation. We tell people to trust in Christ, but if God has not chosen to open their eyes then they will be punished for their unbelief. God simply leaves them in their sinful nature which by nature rejects Him. It is completely just. What is unjust, is that God would send Jesus to die for other people, but that is why God’s mercy and grace are so amazing. It is total undeserved, unconditional grace.

Mark you said a lot of words here but you did not answer my question. I will try again. How is it that God commands those who he did not provide an atonement for to believe (apply) the atonement? Why does God command something that he doesn’t want to happen? Is this not a contradiction?

“My friend, Mark, you are adding that into the Scripture, because Jesus never said it. Jesus talked about those who would come to Him, but He never said that He would only atone for those who would come. By adding to the Scripture one goes beyond what is said.”

Ok then. Well maybe you can show me where Jesus said “I died for every single person and paid the price for their sins, but it is autonomous faith which seals the deal”. I’m not the only one who tries to explain their theology. Please don’t be so hypocritical.

First of all I don’t believe in “autonomous faith” so you are asking me to prove something from the Bible that I don’t believe. But as far as Jesus dying for every single person and paying the price for their sin, Paul said that Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 5:6 (NASB)
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Every person is a sinner and is ungodly.

Christ died for the sins of the whole world

1 John 2:2 (NASB)
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

And God justifies the ungodly

Romans 4:5 (NASB)
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

These are terms of all. The whole world and th ungodly. What I haven’t see is any Scripture that says that Jesus died only for the elect or that God justifies only the elect. Surely the Scripture could be clear that Jesus didn’t die for the sins of the whole world but only the sins of the elect, but we don’t find that in the Scriptures.

So it is interesting that you admit that there is a failure in the Scripture to identify an “only” term that would limit the atonement to a small group. Honestly I shake my head at the amount of Scriptures that give the inspired word that Jesus died for the “many” and some want to be convinced that they are special and that Jesus died for only them and a few others and that the God who is abounding in mercy would choose to give out only a little bit of mercy. How does that show that He is abounding in mercy? I don’t see from the Scriptures that God is pleased that the wicked go to hell because He made them that way and that He wants to show prejudicial love to only a few by choosing to save only the few. Why would anyone want to believe this when the Scriptures don’t say it? Is it possible that some want to see themselves as so special that unless God sent Jesus to die for them alone (plus a few others) then they won’t be able to feel special?

to be continued…