Dave

OK Mark, perhaps you do not understand how to use a dictionary, so I will spell it out. You are saying that submission MUST involve authority. The definitions say that it can involve other things, though it CAN involve authority. Now my Oxford defintion (probably older than yuors) says, “(to authority, fortune, insult, conqueror, doing…)”. The “…” indicates at the end that there are even further possibilities than the ones offered, of which authority has only been one. Note the “insult” is relational even if “fortune” is not. “Conqueror” is relational, but the point is that there are other options. Note the Websters defintion, as I have said before, refers to authority OR will!

With regards to the fact that I have said submission does not dictate authority but have also said that within the Ephesian culture husband authority was accepted I do not believe you have really tried to understand me at all. Paul has spoken to the Ephesians understanding their cultural situation but attempting to redefine what it should look like in CHrist. There is nothing contradictory in what I am saying, there is nothing that I need concede.

Mark, to be honest, I think it would not matter what was said, you would not agree. The way you are using dictionary definitions shows this. At every step of the way you question and protest. I give the Webster defintion and you say it proves your point because it has the word authority. I say it says authority or will and you ignore that and go back to your Oxford definition. I provide an Oxford definition that backs up the idea that submission does not dictate authority and you claim the other things that are not authority have nothing to do with relationships. I provide anbother dictionary definition and you ignore it. I say that the definition is allowing for more options…and I just wonder what you are going to say next. Perhaps I should save you the trouble? “Because the dictionary allows for other options but does not say what they are we would be wrong in assuming it could refer to marriage relationships without authority…and so Mark is right?!?!”

I give up Mark. You win.

I love you brother…but you have frustrated me…