Cheryl Schatz

Cindy,

You said:

The egalitarian’s real issue, I believe, is one of the heart and its unwillingness to take God’s word regarding the woman’s subjection as literal.

Not at all. I believe that egalitarians who are like myself want to respect the whole word of God so that God’s Word can be respected in the way it was written. Take Ephesians 5:15-6:9. So many comps are tempted to leave out the full extent of what Paul has said in this passage. Probably the best sermon I ever heard explaining this entire passage (the passage doesn’t end with chapter 5 but goes onto chapter 6) is found in a recent sermon preached on October 23, 2011 at a Baptist church with the audio found here:
http://fbc2010sermons.posterous.com/spirit-filled-relationships-part-iii

I commend this pastor for a fine job of giving us a huge picture to see from the passage and I would really recommend people listen to the audio and see how well the pastor brings out everything in context that leads to true Christian submission.

You asked:

How do you square the passage in 1 Timothy 2:11-14…or 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

I would also recommend that you have a look at my DVD set that goes through all of these passages in depth. You can click on the DVD tab at the top of the page to order, or to see free clips of the DVDs or to read reviews of the DVDs. There is also a lot of material on this blog that will answer your questions.

You said:

The Bible speaks in some places of submitting, one to another but it speaks about exclusive submission in other passages like Ephesians 5:22

That isn’t true. In fact the Greek word for “submission” is not even in verse 22. The only way to pick it up is to go back to verse 21 where the term is mutual.

You said:

Submission has become a “dirty” word in our sinful world.

I agree and it should not be a dirty word. In fact it should not be a dirty word for anyone including men as Christ Himself set the example on how to put others first and to show respect and honor. We are all to follow Christ and when we understand what submission truly means, we will willingly give honor, respect and hold up others for the sake of Christ.

In all things, there is order. It’s when one person within that order starts bucking against it, wanting a different or higher position

The Bible does not talk about authority within the marriage union except for mutual authority over each others bodies. When God made the man and the woman there was no ordering of the relationship and no hierarchy. Both were given the responsibility to rule the world and neither was given the responsibility to rule the other.

You said:

But, look what happened when Abraham “obeyed” Sara

I believe that we must not be selective when we quote Scripture. It wasn’t always a good thing when Sarah obeyed Abraham and on the other hand God Himself told Abraham to do what Sarah told him to do:

Genesis 21:12 (NASB95)
12But God said to Abraham, “Do not be distressed because of the lad and your maid; whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her, for through Isaac your descendants shall be named.

God told Abraham to submit to Sarah’s decision in this case. That doesn’t mean that Sarah was a boss of Abraham, but that mutual submission is a God-ordained mandate found even in the marriage of Sarah and Abraham.

You said:

I urge you to really look at those hard, unmistakeable passages that speak of obedience to husbands and not try to find ways around them or make them say something other than what they say and mean.

There is no need to find ways around the passages. The passages are inspired in their context and they are for our learning and our Christian character and for righteousness. The church has often not gone far enough in following Christian instruction in the Bible including the passages on submission.

I would commend to you my DVD set to see the full picture of what you may have missed out on that will fulfill the entire passages in a way that goes beyond what you have seen. We need to honor the Word of God so that none of it is disregarded and none of it will contradict other parts.

We also need to remember that we can only have one master in our lives and we are not under two masters. Honor, respect and uplifting is godly. But must never make our husbands our master as the Bible is very clear that we are under one Lord and one master and that is the Lord Jesus.

Blessings,
Cheryl