Dave

Mark, you said, “Also if you argue for a creational understanding for beginning with Adam and Eve, why do you feel you can simply change therefore what ‘beginning’ means in relation to God/Christ? I’m sure you don’t believe Jesus was created out of God stuff. THis is the problem…let’s just change the menaing all the time!”

I have thought more about this though I am still confused Mark. If your point is what I think it is, I don’t think kephale when used as a metaphor has to be used in exactly the same way each time. As has been said many times already, metaphors need to be viewed in their context to understand them. It so happens though in this particular instance I do believe that Jesus was created out of God stuff. Not sure if I would put it exactly like that, but I do believe that Jesus the Word was with God before time, but I also believe he was born as a baby 2000 years ago. I believe that he had no beginning yet was concieved by God. I believe he was “eternally begotton by the father”. I have no idea what that means and whether or not it even makes sense, but I think it suggests that as some point in human history Jesus had a beginning.

So in this situation I do not think I am changing the meaning at all. But if I was…so what? Metaphors have different meanings in different places.