Dave

Hey Craig, you said, “Just to clarify. That bit was not actually my ponderings. I was rather hoping that if I said this to a comp it would make him ponder.”

I knew that, I was simply saying it was your pondering of what a comp would ponder, as you referred to them as your ponderings! It just got me thinking.

Just to clarify, my ponderings are based on more than simply Ephesians and Paul’s use of head. I am even thinking OT and the likeness of Israel to an adulterous wife and also Song of Songs (I follow Stanley Grenz’s thinking in regards to God also being a God of eros…not sure if I want to go into that right now!).

I am still without a clear cut scripture relating to Jesus as having authority over the church though I would want to clarify that I think there must be a bit of now-not-yet tension going on. In the future all authority will be done away with, and the church should be being prepared now to be the bride in the future. Perhaps this holds the answer?

Also there is the possibility that although Jesus might have authority over the church now, though this is not the relationship he chooses to have with his bride, or perhaps will not have in the future?

Craig, with regards to how Jesus can be our Lord as individuals, but not the church, scripture shows the church as different to individuals. The church has a relationship with Jesus that individuals do not. It is when two or three gather in his name. I am not the bride of Christ. God’s redemption plan was never for just Adam, or just Abraham (or Eve and Sarah even!), but for a people that would number more than the stars in the sky. There is something in the richness of community with Christ as head that is lost as an individual before Christ. I know I am not providing you with an answer as to how exactly, but there is a difference. These are ponderings, remember! Perhaps, indeed it is the same for us now as it is the church, that Jesus has authority over us now, but in the future authority will not be a dynamic in the relationship and we are talking a now-not-yet tension again.

I am not convinced by Revelations (though it was good thinking to bring it up), but I think I have answered enough of my own ponderings (though input would be appreciated). Sorry to have gone on – I was not trying to stress anyone out!