Cheryl Schatz

Hi Derek, Your comment didn’t come through right away as I found it in my spam box. Ahhh! Nothing in it looks spamish to me. I actually have gained a tougher skin and can take much more than I used to. If anyone rags on me, I don’t mind as much. I just don’t want any other poster to be hurt. What you have said came across very respectfully. Yes, the way you described uncondtional election is the way I would understand it as well. The only thing that I would disagree would be when you said: “If we don’t have faith we are not elect.” Are you sure? My understanding is that a person is of the elect from eternity past and even when they are still in their sins and in unbelief. So, for example, Paul would have been elect even when he was murdering Christians because he was elected unconditionally from eternity past. He was not saved while he was murdering Christians, but he was still elect. Perhaps what you mean is that if Paul died as an unbeliever then that means he was not elect? What is faith a condition for? It isn’t a condition for election, correct? That is according to Calvinism. Faith is only a condition for salvation, not election and yes, you are correct in that it is taught that all of the elect will come to faith even if it is on their deathbed. I would think that most Calvinists would disagree with you that John was not elect. There is a troubling doctrine brought out by Calvin who said that God gives some people enough of the Spirit to believe that they are actually Christians but He does this not to bring them to faith, for they are never predestined for faith. He does this to condemn them more. I call this troubling because if this is correct, then no one can know for sure if you are one of the elect or just one of the one’s that God has chosen to deceive into thinking that they are elect. I use the word deceive not to be contentious, but I don’t know a word that would accurately convey the purpose of giving the Spirit for condemnation. Another thing to consider is that John did seem to have real faith in the beginning. He is the one that gave the testimony about Jesus and his testimony was true. He testified that Jesus was before him in time, even though Jesus was born after John. That fact could only have been revealed to John by the Holy Spirit. The Scripture doesn’t give any indication that the one chosen to prepare the way for the Messiah would be a liar. I will also do a post about Paul in the future. Paul was a lot like John the Baptist because Paul said that he too was chosen from his mother’s womb. God’s election is amazing, but is it unconditional to salvation? That is the question. John was elected, but what was he elected to? I think we both have considered that John was not unconditionally elected to salvation.