Corrie

“Just once, I’d like to see an INTELLIGENT argument from patriarchalists that shows ANY harm that can come from a couple practicing biblical submission to each other.”

Psalmist,

I would like to see the same thing, too. They will tell you that no one will see the gospel in such a marriage. Well, what sort of picture is painted when we are told in a systematic theology book that God is subordinate/inferior to man when He helps man? I am getting the same picture as Satan proclaiming that he will be seated above God.

Obviously if God can be a subordinate/inferior to man when He helps man and no harm comes to God or His word or His people or the lost, then I hardly think that a fellow human being is going to be harmed by submitting to the person they are closest to.

If submission is such a good thing, then why do patriarchalists react with vehemence when it is suggested that husbands do submit to wives? If it is a good thing and a good word and a good concept, then why is it only good for some people? Didn’t Jesus subordinate Himself in His incarnation in order to set an example for ALL of us to follow? He came to serve, not to be served. He emptied Himself and took on the form of a man. That seems to be saying that being a man is a lowly state and one of subjugation.

Does a husband help his wife in the same sense that God helps us? Well, a husband’s help PALES in comparison to God’s help but you get the picture. So, if God is said to be an ezer to humans and according to Grudem makes Him subordinate/inferior when He is in ezer-mode, then a husband certainly cannot deny that he helps his wife and that when he helps her he becomes an inferior or subordinate (aka submissive) to her, can he? Is a husband above God? Is he so far above his wife that he can’t stoop to help her? Is helping a lowly position only relegated to women, children, slaves and God?

Hosea 13:9 says this:

“O Israel, you are destroyed,
But your help is from Me.”

In other words, God is telling them: O Israel, you are destroyed, but your EZER is from Me.

What does it mean to be an ezer? Junior assistant or strength? Hmmmmm……I think it means “strength”. Certainly God is not telling Israel that He is their subordinate, was He?

It would seem that Grudem’s words might put patriarchalists in a tight spot. Grudem did say that any time a person helps another person, that person who is helping necessarily becomes the subordinate/inferior to the one that he/she is helping. Right? So, that would mean that Grudem is saying that men submit to their wives when they help their wives. Or am I getting something wrong here? Maybe it is wrong for men to help their wives. Maybe that is why we play semantical games and call it “sacrifice” when a man helps his wife.

And, if a man isn’t practicing submission towards his wife in the bedroom, then he is in sin. After all the Bible does tell us that the woman has authority over the man’s body. We could talk about all the harm that comes to a man’s body when he submits himself to his wife in this area. 🙂 After all, is not 1 Cor. 7 a picture of mutual submission? Or do I need greater understanding into this passage, also?