30 gengwall,

You said regarding Chris’ use of Numbers 30:

And yet, the word “they” is never used within this passage…thanks for proving the point that “they” and “she” cannot be analagous.

This is exactly what was going through my mind as I was reading his post. I can’t believe that he was actually tearing down his own argument.

It makes no sense at all unless verses 11-12 are completely disconected from verses 1 and 9-10. Although in theory, they certainly might both pertain to “women”, they can’t both possibly pertain to the same group of women. The admonission in verses 11-12 has to refer to some other woman or women than those already exhorted by Paul in vs. 1 to raise their voices in “supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks”. Since Paul dramatically switched to the singular, as even recognized in the KJV (”the woman” in verse 11), and confirmed in verse 14b (”but the woman, being deceived, has fallen into disobedience – HNV, also equiv in ASV, YNG) it seems pretty clear he was not referring to another group of women but to a single soul. As has been pointed out repeatedly, that is the only conclusion that makes sense from Paul’s grammer.

Very well said!!

But, I have never seen anyone try to make a “she” into “they” before this.

I have given this challenge out for years and no one yet has managed to find an example that makes “she” into “they”. If I was so clearly wrong then there is a problem with these hierarchical men who cannot find even one example to correct me. Clearly if I am in the wrong, these men are at fault for their failure to prove their point and correct a sister in Christ. They speak great swelling words against basic grammar structures but have no single piece of evidence to make Paul into a renegade self-created grammarian.