Cheryl Schatz

Mark,

Cheryl, i agree 100% with the following…

“I believe that one must first be able to exegete the passage first and show in the context the meaning that you put on the word or sentence or verse.”

I am thankful today for two things…one that you called me a “cobba” (friend) and not a “drongo” or a “mug” 🙂 (I found a place online that helps out with understanding Aussie slang. http://www.australiatravelsearch.com.au/trc/slang.html) I am also thrilled that God has been gracious in allowing me to read that you agreed with me 100% on one statement that I made. Oh, boy, it was like walking through a field of mud to get some agreement. But I am grateful for what I can get even if it is only one statement that we can completely agree on. Thanks!

BUt i would also add for myself, the specific culture of the writer. The time when the document was written. The other cultural backdrops- for example with Moses, what is similar/dissimilar with other Ancient Near Eastern sources. All these types of things also help us determine the purpose for writing, the intended audience etc.

We cannot forget that God is the original author of Genesis and Moses merely the scribe. After all no human was there during the time of creation with the exception of Adam for a brief time after his creation and before he named the animals in Genesis 2. Moses could not know any of that without God’s direct revelation and God’s purpose was always that Genesis would be a record not just for the people of Moses’ time but an accurate account that will span all generations documenting the Sovereignty of God in creation and in His dealing with mankind from perfection to the fall and beyond. So when I read Genesis I remember that God wrote it also with our generation in view so that the writing was always meant to be timeless. Only our wonderful, amazing God is capable of that! No mere human could write in such a way that his writings could be understood throughout human history as the clear revelation of God to all generations. I do not believe that God was without knowledge of our time, our culture and our science when He inspired Genesis. So when I read Genesis, I see it as God’s revelation to me and I dig into it to understand the questions that people have today, knowing that God understood all that we needed to know and he left no important question unanswered in His Word. That doesn’t mean that I know all the answers, just that I truly believe in God’s ability to provide the answers ahead of time. If I have faith that the answer is there, I try hard to find it, and God has not failed me yet.

Let me give a quick example- it is interesting to see other ANE ‘creation’ accounts and compare them to the Hebrew account. It helps to show the backdrop of the culture and why certain things are said/emphasised which might otherwise be missed or mis-understood by alone looking at the passage.

While I agree that looking at the culture is highly important, Genesis is unique in that it was not written by a mere human. Neither was Genesis written by One who lacked information or who meant it to be understood by only one generation. Genesis is truly in a class of its own.

In terms of context and theology, covenant theology is the context of the OT writings. They are writing as God’s chosen people in a covenant with Him It is all about instruction about how to live properly in that covenant. That is why i see it as so important.

I also see covenants as extremely important in the Old Testament. I took a course in covenants from Kay Arthur and I will never sign a “covenant” again without understanding the importance that God places on our word. I was able to show our church pastor and deacons from that OT covenant material why I could not in all good conscience sign a covenant as it was written. As a result of the information I provided on covenants, the church board agreed to make needed adjustments.

I’m glad we agree on the inerrancy of the word. I’m glad you also see that to read the ‘red letters’ as literally Jesus exact words is not necessary.

I am not sure that you understand me yet. I believe that God inspired each word and each piece of grammar. I believe that each word is put there for a reason and because I pay attention and do not disregard any part of what is inspired, I have been able to see some things that others miss. Jesus said that it would be the work of the Holy Spirit to bring all things to “remembrance” that Jesus said to the apostles.

John 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Remembrance means to bring back to one’s mind. I have complete faith that what the Holy Spirit did was bring back to their mind the words of Jesus. It was not necessary for the Holy Spirit to change what Jesus said, because Jesus’ words were perfect and didn’t need revision. While I can understand those who do not share my faith in the Holy Spirit’s ability to bring accurate remembrance to their minds, I just take this at face value and believe it. While every word that Jesus spoke is not recorded in the Bible, what is recorded is accurate as it was superintended by the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that a mere man’s ability to recall would be accurate, however I believe that scripture does not originate from the will of man and I accept that the Holy Spirit’s power and His work is just as supernatural as the works of Jesus.

Thus you can see why i don’t necessarily have to see Eve’s words as the ‘exact’ words that she spoke. Both Moses and the gospel writers are recording history after the events.

I hope that you can now understand why I do believe that they are “exact” words. In Genesis no one can tell us for sure exactly what Eve said but God Himself. Was He accurate? I believe He was. And because the Holy Spirit’s work was needed in the New Testament with Jesus’ words, I believe that these words are also accurate. If the words are not accurate, then it is easy to dismiss God’s account as subject to man’s interpretation. But I believe strongly in the Sovereignty of God so I don’t feel any need to figure out what God could have said if He had known our questions. God is all-knowing and He is accurate. I have no fear in believing that every word is inspired accurately. The inspiration for those recorded words come from the God that I have grown to trust. I have not yet found any reason to doubt Him and it has always been my intention to teach others to trust God too.

It is still under the inspiration of the Spirit and the word is still authoritative and inerrant. God inspired these words that are recorded to be His revealed word, and i hope you can see that i am no means a liberal for seeing it this way- i have a very strong view of scripture.

I am not sure how you see God’s Word as accurate yet with a record of the conversation provided by the Holy Spirit as open to correction and reinterpretation. I know that some do not agree with me because taking the Word at face value may conflict with some of their doctrines and that is too high a price to pay. I just don’t care about my own faulty presuppositions. If the accurate, authoritative and inerrant Word of God conflicts with my understanding, then it is my understanding that must give way, not God’s Word. I call this being a “truth lover”. I also define this as a way to show that I fear God. I will bend and conform my own understanding and bow my knees before God and allow my misunderstanding to be shaped and corrected by His Word. I will never purposely bend His Word to fit my understanding. This is why I try hard to keep objective and not allow myself to be easily hurt, but it is also why any charge of deception can be offensive to me.

In my very first days as a fully committed Christian, God told me to confess my sin of hypocrisy in front of the entire church and in fear and trembling I obeyed. That early example of laying aside my own ego makes it far easier today to admit when I am wrong. To me there is no shame in freely admitting my error. There would only be shame in failing to humble myself and failing to admit that I was wrong when I see it.

Now in relation to your videos. I appreciated them very much. I found them very helpful in understanding your position on certain things.

I thank you for your kind words. I also praise God for helping me to present ideas in a way that people can understand the concept even if they don’t agree with me. God is so good!

Actually the last video i probably found the most helpful for me- running through the various ‘two witnesses’ stuff- i haven’t looked into that much so thanks for that one.

I appreciated hearing this. My years of work with the Jehovah’s Witnesses has helped me to understand why God’s confirmation and constant repetition is so important. Two or three witnesses is for our safety, not for God’s need to repeat Himself. In fact after that talk a man came up to me and reminded me that even with the ten commandments, God had repeated Himself giving one the commandments in verbal form, then one stone witness and then the second stone witness. Then the commandments are repeated throughout Scripture and this shows that God cares enough about us to make sure that we understand what sin is so that we can avoid it. It is God’s grace to us.

So i guess you want my jury verdict? Is Eve guilty of sinning before the fall- my answer is definately not.

You are a wise jury member who took into consideration all the facts. Thank you for your vote of confidence for Eve and for exonerating her of any unestablished sin.

Does your interpretation of Gen convince me- no it doesn’t. Does your interpretation of th priesthood amd 1 Tim convince, again no it doesn’t. But i still enjoyed listening to them.

My purpose is to show that there is a well thought out stand for allowing women to teach the Bible to the body of Christ. On the other side, I wanted to show that the view that sees women as being in sin for teaching correct biblical doctrine to men has major contradictions and holes in this view when compared to the straight edge of Scripture. Lastly I wanted people to be able to reason through this issue and use it as a springboard to check out what they may not have considered before. There are enough divisions in the body of Christ today and if I can be a help for brothers and sisters in Christ to come together in love instead of restricting the Holy Spirit when He is using a female vessel and thus accusing women of sin by their obedience to God, then I will feel satisfied that I have accomplished what I set forth to do. Test all things. Hold fast to what is true.

A quick side note- i like the way you Canadians say ‘about’. I noticed you say it the same as Don Carson-is he Canadian aswell?

I see that Dave has answered this question for me. Actually I had no idea that Don Carson is Canadian. It looks like he lives in the US now, but Dave is right, he was born and raised in Canada.