Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
You said:

I think i will leave the previous discussion alone now since you are insistent on thinking i’m a liberal, and am not willing to tell me which of Jesus words in the gospel are his direct actual words.

I already told you. All of the words of Jesus that are recorded are His words. Just because you don’t believe that doesn’t mean that I don’t. I can’t pick out one author and say that he quoted Jesus accurately and the other didn’t because I believe they all quoted Him accurately and none of the them added to His words. I sure would like to see which authors you think added to Jesus’ words? Surely couldn’t have been John. He was the one who Jesus loved. He wouldn’t have take the remembrance that the Holy Spirit gave and added to it. How about Luke? He was a historian. Surely he didn’t add to Jesus’ words? So my guess is that you believe that Matthew or Mark added to Jesus words? How would we be able to trust any of them again? What words ascribed to Jesus are now untrustworthy but concocted by a disciple in the name of the Holy Spirit’s approval?

I think it is just fine to drop the issue of liberalism. Let’s continue to discuss the truth of God’s word and leave aside the things that you think had to be rewritten. I am curious to know if CBMW or other complementarian authors agree with you that the conversations in Genesis may have gone to the rewriting department? If you have a quote from them or others that I could see, I would be extremely interested to know if this is also their view. I can’t say that I have ever read anything like this from them, but then sometimes things go right over my head.

By the way i don’t see contradictions in the bible, i see contradictions in your view.

Nah, you just don’t get my view. If you did, you wouldn’t keep asking me the same questions when I already gave you an answer. Now correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that you don’t see contradictions because you believe that the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the gospels to add in things that they thought that Jesus said. So while one apostle thought Jesus said it one way, another thought Jesus said it another way and that was okay by the Holy Spirit because His job was just to help them remember that Jesus said something, not exactly what He said. Correct? So there are not actually contradictions but just inaccurate memories that were good enough for this level of a historical account. After all these men felt that it is not important what Jesus actually said but rather the feeling of the story and the principle is the important thing, not the actual words. Am I getting close to what you believe?

Now this makes no sense to me:

I have no problem with the spirit giving rememberence to the gospel writers, i just keep in mind the intended audience and purpose, therefore we can understand the structure, arrangement and whihc of Jesus miracles, words etc that particular gospel writer is using. Do i think that they say things Jesus didn’t say, of course not- so don’t think i think this.

What has the intended audience have to do with whether these were actually Jesus’ words or not? The gospels are historical accounts. They emphasize different parts of Jesus’ ministry and one some emphasize His humanity, John emphasizes His Diety. Does His words as a human have less need for accuracy than His words as Deity? How can the quotes of Jesus be inaccurate if they don’t say things that Jesus didn’t say? If you believe that the quotes are accurate and Jesus really did say those words then why do you dispute with me and try to make me accept that God had to fix up the quotes afterward to add things that weren’t said in the beginning like apparently God did with Eve? Or are you saying that what God did to Eve by messing with her words is not the exact thing that He did with Jesus? Do you see how confusing this has become? If you don’t want to carry on with this, that’s fine.

I would like to ask one thing…do you consider yourself an Emergent kind of guy? Are you a postmodern? Is truth fluid to you?

I am not trying to pin you down with a label. I am just trying to understand. If we need to move on, sure let’s move on. Maybe if you could give me a book that teaches what you are trying to say, then I could get a handle on it. I haven’t read any commentary or book that told me that God added to what Eve said after the fact. This is a novel idea to me and it just doesn’t fit in the world view of an Almighty God who is not like us.

Since you are so quick to ignore ANE context and the contexts and prupose of the gospel writers i’ll assume you will abandon your opinion on 1 Cor 14 where you rely heavily on the cultural talmud?

I’ll send the email soon.
Great! Now I want you to realize that you are special. Other than a debate situation I have never allowed a comp to post on my blog before. Now don’t get too puffed up. It may not happen again either 😉

Cheerios

We eat these for breakfast.

P.S I would really like you to tell me what you see as male headship? Or at least direct me to somewhere on this blog where you talk about it directly

Here are some of the posts that deal with this subject:
http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/23/jesus-our-example-of-a-godly-husband/

http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/

http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/09/11/who-cares/

http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/01/22/the-husband-as-king-over-the-wife/

http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/01/20/gods-woman-is-she-needy-of-a-representative-priest-part-2/