Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
You have once again failed to answer my questions. The original question was:

Is it a “sin” for a godly Christian woman to teach correct Biblical doctrine to men in the church? Yes or no?

Originally you said “No” but then you tried to qualify “teaching” and to state that only elders can “teach” the church while women can teach in a sense through singing and prayer and prophecy. The problem here is that I directly qualified what I meant by teaching and that is teaching Biblical doctrine. Is it a sin for a woman to teach Biblical doctrine to men? Since you did answer no at one point, let’s take a look at the Biblical “gift” of teaching to see if there are two Biblical gifts or one.

Eph 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

Ephesians 4:11-13 is not gender based and so “teachers” here is not restricted to men. According to Ephesians 4:11-13 what is the purpose of these gifts including that of teacher? The purpose is for equipping the church (the saints, the body of Christ) for work, for building up the body, for attaining to the unity of the doctrine of faith, for attaining the doctrinal knowledge of the Son of God, to bring the body of Christ to maturity. This is not some secondary “teaching” but a full doctrinal ability to grow the church.

Are women allowed to grow the church? All women allowed to equip the church doctrinally? Are women allowed to provide doctrinal instruction to build up the body and for bringing the church into unity of the faith? Are women allowed to nurture the church and bring the church to maturity? According to Eph. 4:11-13 God Himself is the one who equips in this area and it is His gifts that He gives to individual members of His choice. These are people who are not “picked” as elders but “gifted” as doctrinal and instructional teachers who bring the church to maturity.

What other kind of teachers are “gifted” by God?

1 Peter 4:10 As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
1 Peter 4:11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

“Each one” Peter says has received a special gift. The purpose is to serve one another as a “good steward” of the grace of God. The one who speaks is to speak as speaking the very utterances of God. The Bible never limits the speaking by dividing the speaking into two classes – one for males and one for females. Neither does the Bible ever divide up the gift of teaching into gender related appropriate teaching.

Mark, you have stated that there are different kinds of teaching gifts, one that is allowed for women and one that is reserved for men alone, but you have given not even one verse that limits God’s ability to gift women with doctrinal teaching nor have you give any verse that defines the “secondary” gift of teaching that prohibits women from teaching doctrine to the church as one who serves the church, equips the saints and protects the flock. Where are these two gifts of teaching listed? And why does the Bible never state that women who speak with the authority of God are in sin while men who speak with the authority of God have a higher gifting?

Whether you believe that men alone are to be elders or not, that is not the point. That is a point that can be argued at another time. We are talking about God’s gifting of individuals for service to the body of Christ. There is not a single place that God lists a secondary level of gifts nor is there a single place that “restricts” God’s gifts to a gender or to an ordination by men. While you say that only the elders are to teach, the Bible does not say that. You are going beyond the scriptures in order to restrict God’s own gifts. While an elder must be able to teach, it would be adding to the Word to state a restriction that ONLY elders have the permission to teach.

The bottom line is that God’s gifts are not to be restricted but they are to be encouraged and empowered. There is no “law” that restricts God’s gifts when they are given to women.

You say that women are not allowed to “preach” but “preaching” is an announcing and is attached to the proclaiming of the gospel. Are you telling us that women are not allowed to announce the gospel? Has the gospel now become limited to the mouths of the men? The very first “preachers” of the gospel were the women who were instructed to announce the resurrection. If women are not allowed to preach then why would Jesus pick them as the first ones who were commanded to preach the good news?

While I have continually asked questions about God’s gifting, you have continually gone back to “elders” which is not a gift. Why do you do that? Where does the Bible limit God’s gifts and deny the full use of the power that the Holy Spirit gives when the vessel He uses is a woman?

Mark, you said:

Here Paul further qualifies that they must be able to rebuke false doctrine by sound knowledge of good doctrine.

Are you saying that only men are allowed to “rebuke false doctrine” and that only men are to have “sound knowledge of good doctrine”?

God has gifted me in that area. I worked directly with former Jehovah’s Witnesses for 16 years while I unravelled their false doctrine and taught them the truth of the gospel. Am I sinning against God by using my gifts in this way? If I am allowed to “rebuke false doctrine” and give out “sound knowledge of good doctrine” to lost men, then what stops me from using my gifts when these men become Christians as many of them did? Where does the Scripture say that I become a sinner for preaching the good news to men and correcting their error?

You said:

Now to further expand on my point, being that men and women ‘teach’ each other in various ways. 1 Corinthians 11 teaches us that women can pray and prophecy in the church. Now to me, that would involve some form of ‘teaching’ to men in the congregation. However it is not the same ‘teaching’ as to those who are called and gifted to be elders of the church.

There is no such “gift” as elder. And the “gift” of teaching is not limited to males. Why do you twist the words of Scripture and remove the gift of teacher and add the gift of elder? Why do you make the gift of teaching to have two levels when there is no such division in the Scripture? Is it possible that you have to change the Scripture in order to fit your own bias? Should we be listening to you as a “teacher” when what you say about the gifts isn’t found in the Scripture? Are you gifted in giving out Scripture doctrine just because you are a male? If you are gifted why does your teaching not match up to the inspired Word?

You said:

Now it is my opinion that since we are talking about a ‘church’ scenario and this is what the letters of Timothy and Titus are addressing (an already established church), the gifting of apostles, evangelists, prophets (Eph 4:11) are not to be understood as having the same responsibility for the ‘teaching’ and overseeing of the church as the elders do.

I noticed right away that you said “it is my opinion”. Mark, this is part of the problem, in that you put your opinion above the clear Word of Scripture. People’s opinion is to be tested by the Scripture. Ephesians 4:11 does not stop with this verse. After giving the amazing job that the gifts of God are responsible for building up the body, Paul goes on to say:

Eph 4:14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
Eph 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,
Eph 4:16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

The gifts of God are also clearly for the protection of the body from false doctrine and trickery of men that results in deception. The fact is that those who are gifted become elders. An elder does not have higher gifts than a teacher or a prophet. An elder is chosen because the person already exhibits the necessary gifts that are needed to care for and protect the body. An elder is one who is approved by the job that they are already doing. The gifts don’t come when one has a “title” of elder. God is the one who gives the gifts and the church is never given the responsibility to decide on which of God’s gifts they want and which they can reject. God’s gifts are there because they are all needed. People become unbalanced when the gifts are neglected and pushed aside as unnecessary.

More coming in the next comment….