Cheryl Schatz

Mark #146,

You said:

Now to answer your supposed dilemma you say my view has. First your presupposition is that the enrollment is a ‘ministry’ thing. We both know this is not in the text so therefore i will try and understand the enrollment from the context of the text.

You have not answered anything that I brought up about the ministry that is shown from the passage. Why is it that you ignore my comments in #142?

Therefore i see the ‘pledge’ as abandoning their committment to being on the ‘roll’ of widows needing help. To understand this in a ministerial sense abandons the context of the passage.

A committment to being on the “roll”??? Surely you jest! The passage clearly says that the committment is to Christ.

1 Timothy 5:11
11 But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married,

It is not a disregard of Christ to get married unless one has made a pledge not to be married. Verse 11 cannot be ignored because this verse makes it clear that those who take the pledge disregard Christ if they want to get married.

Since Paul clearly makes the pledge as one to Christ and the service that goes along with that pledge is listed as the service for the church, to say that there is no ministry here for the church would seem to show that you have formed an opinion despite what the text says.

Now CHeryl answer some of my questions.
1. Do you agree with Kay about this obscure over 60’s club eldership?

The ministry that is shown for the ones who have taken a pledge for providing service to the church is so strong, I cannot reject that there was a special class of women ministers who were financially provided for by the church.

I would like to ask you to explain why there was a group of widows who could not be fed by the church unless they pledge to remain without a husband and who would be dishonoring Christ if they went against that pledge? Why was the pledge necessary? How did Paul and the church justify the requirement of this pledge? Mark, you have been asked quite a few times to answer this question but you have side stepped it without answering. Why the requirement of celibacy?

3. If you believe this is about women elders, therefore can women elders only do this sort of ministry since verse 17 it supposed to switch to ‘male’ elders who therefore are the ones who preach and teach.

Where does it say that verses 17 & 18 are only about males?

4. Why have you ignored all the obvious grammar about ‘caring’, younger/older correlations, not being burdened and dismissed this passage being about helping widows in need.

Just as the other commentators suggest, I too agree that this passage is about older female widows who are ministering to the church. This is about their permanent support and other widows who need temporary support are not a part of the ones who take a pledge of ministry. Paul also makes note that those widows who are young should not even be temporarily supported by the church if they have relatives who can help them. And if the younger widows do not have relatives that can look after them, they should not be allowed to join the roll of permanent widows who serve the church as they may change their minds about marriage. Instead they should be encouraged to marry again and raise a family for the glory of God.

Mark, I really would encourage you to answer the questions that have been posed to you. I get the feeling that you are reading the comments in a rush and that may be why you fail to answer the questions. At least I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. The problem with that, is that it makes you come across as one who is evading the questions perhaps because you have no answers. If you don’t know the answer, you are free to tell us you won’t be answering because you don’t have the answer. We will accept that. Fair enough?