Mark

1. “I would like to ask you to explain why there was a group of widows who could not be fed by the church unless they pledge to remain without a husband and who would be dishonoring Christ if they went against that pledge? Why was the pledge necessary? How did Paul and the church justify the requirement of this pledge? Mark, you have been asked quite a few times to answer this question but you have side stepped it without answering. Why the requirement of celibacy?”

OK what does the bible say.

Verse 9. Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,

So only ‘widows’ over 60 can be enrolled. Correct? Also these widows to be enrolled could only of had 1 husband. Correct?

Verse 10. and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work.

Now there are more qualifications for this enrolment. Good works, had children, shown hospitatlity etc etc. So therefore the widow on the role had to have certain ‘moral’ characteristics or a record of good works. Correct?

Verse 11. But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry

So younger widows are refused because their ‘passions’ draw them away from Christ. I see this passion obviously as a negative thing, because it draws them away from Christ.

Verse 12. and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.

Now this is the crunch verse. You see this as abandoning their ‘pledge’ or their enrolment as some sort of ministers or elders which is no-where mentioned in the text. I see this as abandoning their commitment to Christ, namely what is said in verse 11. Now what was this commitment? Again you would say that it is some sort of eldership but again this is not in the text. What is in the text is a devotion to supplications and prayers day and night (verse 5) because that is what a true widow is. So there ‘pledge’ is a commitment to Christ, giving supplications and prayers day and night, therefore showing them to be true widows and aloud to be enrolled for help. So you see Cheryl, your view is based on hypothesis, mine on scripture and context.

Verse 13. Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not

So back to younger widows. Besides abandoning their faith after going after their ‘desires’, they also live ungodly lives. Their passions are for things of the world, not for Christ unlike the older widows who had already shown in their lifetime a commitment to Christ.(verse 10)

Verse 14. So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and give the adversary no occasion for slander.

So why the instruction to re-marry for the younger widows. Well we know that Paul expects their passions to pull them away from Christ. If they remarry though and commit their lives to bearing children, managing their households, it will protect them from namely what Paul addresses in verse 13. This is exactly the same instruction Paul gives in Corinth
1 Cor 7:8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.

Again with 1 Cor 7:1-2
Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

Verse 15. For some have already strayed after Satan.

That is some younger widows have fallen pray to their desires and abandoned Christ.

Verse 16. If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are really widows.

Finally Paul gives the charge that believing women care for widows in their own family so that the church is not burdened, that it may car for the true widows, namely, those outlined earlier who commit themselves to Christ.

So now back to your original question
“I would like to ask you to explain why there was a group of widows who could not be fed by the church unless they pledge to remain without a husband and who would be dishonoring Christ if they went against that pledge?”

What you have done here is flipped the passage. They are dishonouring Christ because they abandon him, not because they get married. It’s not the marriage which is wrong, it is their sensual desires that they put before Christ. In fact Paul instructs the younger ones to get married to avoid straying after Satan.

Again you ask “Why was the pledge necessary?”
Now i assume you ask this because you only see the pledge as a commitment to eldership. Since i have shown this is not the intention of the passage, rather a pledge to service to Christ i would think such a pledge would be necessary in order for the church to see she is a ‘true’ widow.

Again you ask “How did Paul and the church justify the requirement of this pledge?”
Again your look for justification because you see the pledge as eldership which is not in the passage and think i am saying a woman MUST remain celibate to receive help. This is not what i have said. Younger women were driven by their desires therefore not a true widow. A true widow had a reputation as a Christ follower and was therefore to be enrolled and continue to serve Christ in prayer and supplication.

If this passage is dealing with eldership what is their ministry? Are elders instructed elsewhere i the bible to be over 60 and only pray (not to mention be widows)? No i don’t think so. They are to shepherd the church. Now because this passage clearly deals with younger and older issues it is not sensible to translate this passage as some sort of obscure eldership, not backed up by other scripture nor reliant on the context of the passage.