Cheryl Schatz

It has been a long day for me, but I am going to try to answer as much as I can before I head for bed.

Mark,
You said:

I have no problem saying that God was in control of what Adam said and knew what he said.

Who said that God “was in control” of what Adam said? There is nothing in the text that says God whispered to Adam about what to say. I think the passage speaks for itself when Adam exclaims “at last!” and describes this amazing creature in front of him as his “flesh and bone”. He spoke with his own reasoning while acknowledging what God had done with His unique creation.

Sorry if I already commented on this one, but I can’t remember where I left off.

You said:

How can you assume that I am saying God had nothing to do with what Eve’s identity when the words you quote me on say the opposite. OF course God knew Eve before Adam did. The text simply shows that it was also God’s plan for the man to name the woman. I wonder with some of your comments Cheryl.

The text does not say that it was God’s plan for the man to name the woman. I really wonder which version of the Bible that you are reading. Your claims are not in any of the Bible versions that I have access to.

You seem to be throwing ‘identity’ around a lot now. If you have changed your opinion of what you said about verse 22 just admit it. We are on the same page that God’s plan existed before any human- just don’t ignore the way God uses human instruments to fulfil his purposes.

I haven’t changed at all. I just want to pay attention to the text so that I am not deceived by false interpretations. I don’t ignore when God uses human instruments. I just don’t want to add in an inter-mediator where there is none.

Yes, lets do that and not say God called her woman before the man which is clearly not in the text.

The text clearly says that God created her as a woman. If you disagree then please show me what she was created as if not the woman who was taken from Adam’s flesh. I cannot ignore God’s identifying her as woman even though you don’t seem to have a problem with ignoring this fact.

This is interesting! You want to support your view with the idea about prophetic naming and the like, yet you try and ignore the Hebrew culture in which naming was authoritative, but apparently this is a nuance.

Listen, here is the deal – we don’t have to guess what the meaning is when God clearly states the facts. Who gave Adam authority over the animals? Since God says that He gave this authority to the male and the female, we don’t have to guess about authority given. It is stated clearly and directly. But who gave the woman authority over the man? Well we could speculate and say that if the woman gave the fruit to the man, this must mean that she has authority over him.

The problem with this kind of speculation is that authority cannot be taken without it being directly given no matter what the culture said. This is an issue of God. He is Sovereign and no one has the right to have any kind of authority unless He gives it.

Romans 13:1 (ESV)
Submission to the Authorities
13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

John 19:11 (ESV)
11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

Matthew 28:18 (NASB)
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

If authority has to be granted, then please show me how Adam got an authority over his wife without it being given to him? While God gave Adam and Eve authority over the animals and authority over the earth, He never gave Eve authority over Adam or Adam authority over Eve. If you believe differently then the burden of proof is on you. Show the verse that says that God granted Adam authority over his wife.