Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
You said to pinklight:

Here lies the problem with your view. You are looking at it from a readers perspective. We do know alot of other details from verses other that verse 23. However how would Eve of known her identity had Adam not said it. If her identity was solely in God’s mind and was never declared by Adam, she would never have known would she?

Kay identifies the problem with this and I would also like to comment. You seem to have the same mindset as the complementarian leaders that have been quoted on this blog saying that Eve got her identity only through the man. The problem with this is that it is God who identifies the man and the woman as being in His image so the original purpose and identity comes from God not from man. Secondly the man was out of it when God created the woman so he could not have been the first one to communicate with her. Eve, by her own testimony, identifies God as the originator of information given to her so we know that God talked with the woman that He created. We also know that God brought the woman to the man so it is reasonable for God to have explained to the woman not only what she could eat but who she was and who was the man that He was bringing her to. The fact that God identified her as woman when He created her shows that His purpose for her was already set before He brought her to the man. Therefore the man’s announcing her identification with himself would not have been her first interaction with who she is because she was alone with God and communicating with Him before she was brought to the man. To assume that the man would be needed to give identity to the woman assumes that the work of God in humanity must be given direction by one human just has no basis in the text. Notice that the woman doesn’t say to the man that she now knows that she is a part of him, but who on earth is he? She doesn’t have to ask who he is because she was with God in the beginning before she was brought to the man. God didn’t bring a confused woman to the man. He brought someone that already knew who she was. It was Adam who was required to accept her for who God created her to be and Adam did that beautifully.

She would not have known how or why she was made.

Oh really? So she was good enough to be talked to and told what she could eat and what she couldn’t eat, but God couldn’t tell her who she was? That isn’t even reasonable. Adam clearly knew who he was so what makes you think that the woman needed someone other than God to tell her who she was?

Adam’s declaration, i agree is about the intimacy of the relationship and joy at seeing God’s new creation for him, yet her identity is portrayed from the will and mind of God, to them both through Adam’s words.

Where do you get this from? Adam doesn’t say that his words are the will and mind of God. Adam just identifies what already is. It is clear that he understands the operation that God did on him brought his mate forth as created from his own flesh and blood, but to say that his words were the will and mind of God to teach the woman what her identity was is really going way beyond what the text says. If this was the case that Eve needed this education on who she was, where are the words explaining to her who he is?

He names her because he now realises what God has done, created a woman from the man-his bone and flesh literally. Put simply God has given Adam the role of naming the other animals, and has now given him the role of naming the woman aswell.

We know that God gave the man the opportunity to name the animals because God reveals in the narrative of Genesis 2:19 that the animals were brought to Adam for the specific reason for Adam to give them a name. In the case of the woman, God doesn’t say that He brings he to be named. That is totally missing from the account although God could have said this is that is what He wanted. Rather, God brings her to Adam in an act of marriage, not an act of naming. The fact that this was an act of marriage is clearly shown in verse 24 where the bringing together is said to be joining together as a “one flesh” union. There is no mention at all of a purpose of naming.

The context of the narrative is clearly linked to the earlier accounts where he names all the other animals.

Mark, Mark, Mark, did you really read what you wrote? All the other animals?? This is the problem with many complementarians. Even though God specifically says that there was not found an ezer comparable to him (among the animals), when the woman is created, complementarians see her as just another of the class of animals that Adam was to name. But her purpose and identify was in God not in man. She was the “image of God” just as he was. She was not the same as the animals, she was different. And because she was different, we cannot assume that she was to be treated the same way as the animals. This is a fatal flaw with comps and one of the reasons why women are not treated with the respect that they deserve.

To be honest i’m quite amazed at the roundabout conversations on such a simple topic.

To be honest, I am quite amazed at how comps treat women like just another animal when she is the image of God!

The man named the woman. The bible says it so lets accept it and see what it means rather than trying to pull exegetical loopholes around it.

The man identified the woman as his own flesh and blood just as God did when He made the woman. I am continually mystified at the levels some will go to, to downgrade women. Placing women in the category of the ones to be dominated, ruled and controlled is demeaning to the place of the woman. She is in the image of God and in the image of man so she is to be gloried in and not ruled over. She is truly the glory of the man, not under the rule of the man. When men take what was meant to be his glory and degrade her to a place of dominion, to me they really show that the world revolves around the male and not around God who created both to be in His image. The pinpoint of creation and identification comes from God. Man only recognizes what God has already identified in His creation. God alone creates and man accepts that creation and identifies his union with her as flesh and bone.