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@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @Happy_AHeathen @JollyStine @pastherandie @

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @Happy_AHeathen @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @MikeWingerii So the serious error that Paul left Timothy behind to fix was that godly women were teaching cor

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @Happy_AHeathen @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii But in the one case, he is saying the opposite of what you said, and in the other case he is dealing with false teaching, not telling anyone to st...

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @Happy_AHeathen @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii But in the one case, he is saying the opposite of what you said, and in the other case he is dea

@ymmotrojam @Happy_AHeathen @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii But we both believe that the Bible is inspired, right? In every word and even the grammar? I am not throwing out any part of it. Everything in com...

@ymmotrojam @Happy_AHeathen @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii But we both believe that the Bible is inspired, right? In every word and even the grammar? I am

@ymmotrojam @Happy_AHeathen @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @

@ymmotrojam @Happy_AHeathen @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii You are framing this as a fundamental disagreement over the Bible? Wow, Tom. That certainly turn

@Aliphaire @ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii Tom is misrepresenting Paul’s words. Paul actually quoted those who though like Tom and said the following: "What? came the word of God out from you? ...

@Aliphaire @ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii Tom is misrepresenting Paul’s words. Paul actually quoted those who though like Tom and said the foll

1Co 14:36 question

@AVER735 You think that nature—you know, the observable creation—teaches you the

@AVER735 You think that nature—you know, the observable creation—teaches you there is a difference between the head hair of a male and a female and that this is why God want us to uncover the man’s he

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii Tom, I’ll go to the church without leaders who believe that they as men are the only ones who the word came to and the only ones who the word comes forth from. I...

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii Tom, I’ll go to the church without leaders who believe that they as men are the only ones who the word came to a

@StevenMKestner One reference I found interesting was in Katia Adams’ book “Equa

@StevenMKestner One reference I found interesting was in Katia Adams’ book “Equal” where she notes that significant complementarians don’t put much weight on 1 Tim 3 as requiring males only. https://t

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @MikeWingerii I just read "Hard Sayings of the Bible," by Walter C. Kaiser Jr, Peter H Davids, FF Bruce, Manfred T. Brauch from 1996. The part on 1Co 14:34-35 does not propose...

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @MikeWingerii I just read "Hard Sayings of the Bible," by Walter C. Kaiser Jr, Peter H Davids, FF Bruce, Manfred T. Brauch fro

1Co 14:34-35 debate

@ronhenzel Ron, the verb authentein is rare showing up something like 8 times in

@ronhenzel Ron, the verb authentein is rare showing up something like 8 times in antiquity. How can you say it is “hardly rare”? Are you serious?

@ronhenzel This is all fine and dandy, Ron. But to understand what Paul means an

@ronhenzel This is all fine and dandy, Ron. But to understand what Paul means and who 'a woman' and 'a man' refers to, and what Paul intends by choosing such a rare word, authentein, we have to look t

@jonedwardcroft The Bible should be understandable to all. But we need to be able to read in context. Nature is nature, it is what we can readily observe by just observing. Culture is everything that we do to change nature, like cutting hair. The IS...

@jonedwardcroft The Bible should be understandable to all. But we need to be able to read in context. Nature is nature, it is what we can readily observe by just observing. Culture is everything that

@jonedwardcroft It’s an argument that takes the text seriously. The idea that me

@jonedwardcroft It’s an argument that takes the text seriously. The idea that men’s hair must be shorter than their wives’ or only the women must cover their heads sounds like the cultural argument. N

@jonedwardcroft It’s an argument for what I think Paul is intending by what he w

@jonedwardcroft It’s an argument for what I think Paul is intending by what he wrote. Based on what he said, I think Paul was an egalitarian.

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeW

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii No, they are there to teach us something. No sharpie required. The fact that Paul is refuting what these Judiaze

@2ndBookPress Good point! I agree…though nature does not teach long hair is a sh

@2ndBookPress Good point! I agree…though nature does not teach long hair is a shame. https://t.co/HFu3esfHdR

@JoanBandy @MariusM38610501 Here’s how I parse this out. I plan on putting up a

@JoanBandy @MariusM38610501 Here’s how I parse this out. I plan on putting up a full exegesis of 1Co 11:1-16 soon, just haven’t gotten to it quite yet. https://t.co/jWoZ6UsU1Z

1Co 11:1-16 general

@MariusM38610501 Everything flows from the start of Paul’s argument. He commends the Corinthians for following the traditions he has conveyed to them. In this case, the tradition to not cover their heads was in view. However, there was some problems ...

@MariusM38610501 Everything flows from the start of Paul’s argument. He commends the Corinthians for following the traditions he has conveyed to them. In this case, the tradition to not cover their he

@russ_hjelm And it’s crazy too as Paul is referring to nature, something we can all check. We can all see that hair on our arms stops growing at a certain length. The same for eyebrows. But on the scalp, it doesn’t stop. And there’s no difference her...

@russ_hjelm And it’s crazy too as Paul is referring to nature, something we can all check. We can all see that hair on our arms stops growing at a certain length. The same for eyebrows. But on the sca

@lunarCelerity Here are a few reasons. In Greek, word ordering isn’t the same as in English. There is no boldface so by putting a word first you emphasize it like bolding. Most translators are men and they come to the text with a bias towards men and...

@lunarCelerity Here are a few reasons. In Greek, word ordering isn’t the same as in English. There is no boldface so by putting a word first you emphasize it like bolding. Most translators are men and

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii You said it was dishonouring to say Paul was quoting from the Corinthians (well, likely the Judiazers who infiltrated them like the church at Galatia). How is tha...

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii You said it was dishonouring to say Paul was quoting from the Corinthians (well, likely the Judiazers who infilt

@jmmooreo Not that I found. It’s really just the misplacement of the “not” which

@jmmooreo Not that I found. It’s really just the misplacement of the “not” which inverts the meaning. But we can readily see what nature teaches from direct observation.

@ortrails This isn’t about what happens to some men as if it was about losing ou

@ortrails This isn’t about what happens to some men as if it was about losing our hair covering then Paul would be advocating for the *men* to cover their bald heads. Here’s what this passage means. h

Thanks to everyone who voted on my poll on 1Co 11:14-15! Most rightly recognized that nature doesn’t teach us that there is any difference between the head hair on a boy and a girl. So what is Paul saying? This verse has a translation issue. Let’s l...

Thanks to everyone who voted on my poll on 1Co 11:14-15! Most rightly recognized that nature doesn’t teach us that there is any difference between the head hair on a boy and a girl. So what is Paul s

1Co 11:14-15 question

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii You know that Paul is quoting from the Corinthians elsewhere too, right? It’s dishonouring to the Holy Spirit for Paul to quote them and to correct them? Why are ...

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii You know that Paul is quoting from the Corinthians elsewhere too, right? It’s dishonouring to the Holy Spirit fo

@JollyStine @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii The vi

@JollyStine @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii The view that Paul is silencing unruly women in all the churches doesn’t make sense of the details in these verses. The only v

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @MikeWingerii Wow, Ron, you think everyone always agrees? So you agree with all complementarians? Mike Winger thinks women can be deacons. About 1Co 14:34-45. Philip Payne thinks these vers...

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @MikeWingerii Wow, Ron, you think everyone always agrees? So you agree with all complementarians? Mike Winger thinks women can be deacons.

1Co 14:34-45 debate

@JollyStine @PrinceDean78489 @CherylSchatz @MikeWingerii @MargMowczko Thanks for sharing, Christine. You have been a huge help replying to challenges as I can’t keep up. Unfortunately, that 1Ti 2:11-12 is about a specific woman appears to be the ext...

@JollyStine @PrinceDean78489 @CherylSchatz @MikeWingerii @MargMowczko Thanks for sharing, Christine. You have been a huge help replying to challenges as I can’t keep up. Unfortunately, that 1Ti 2:11-

1Ti 2:11-12 general

@ferdnk @MikeWingerii @JollyStine What, you think he was refuting the custom of

@ferdnk @MikeWingerii @JollyStine What, you think he was refuting the custom of contentiousness? He had to tell the Corinthians that all the churches don't have the custom of contentiousness? Very

@gzulbaran10 @ronhenzel Responding to Ron's points: Paul specifically points to deception and the time order of creation. Because he mentions Eve, "the childbearing" is a reference to the seed of the woman. Paul is extending the same grace to the de...

@gzulbaran10 @ronhenzel Responding to Ron's points: Paul specifically points to deception and the time order of creation. Because he mentions Eve, "the childbearing" is a reference to the seed of the

@ymmotrojam @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii Tom, you are putting artificial constraints on the text. Why does Paul have to give women permission separately when his instructions are meant for all? "For you can ALL proph...

@ymmotrojam @JollyStine @pastherandie @ronhenzel @peace_got @MikeWingerii Tom, you are putting artificial constraints on the text. Why does Paul have to give women permission separately when his instr

1Co 14:31 question

@John11428000 @MikeWingerii It would seem that Mike is pressing his conscience o

@John11428000 @MikeWingerii It would seem that Mike is pressing his conscience on others. If he truly believes it is secondary, he needs to learn to tolerate it as a secondary difference even if he th

@gzulbaran10 @ronhenzel Yes, “a woman… the woman”—and in 1Ti 2:11-15, we have “a woman… the woman” with the details that she is deceived and teaching heresy and her husband is not deceived and being silent because of Paul’s connection with Adam and E...

@gzulbaran10 @ronhenzel Yes, “a woman… the woman”—and in 1Ti 2:11-15, we have “a woman… the woman” with the details that she is deceived and teaching heresy and her husband is not deceived and being s

1Ti 2:11-15 general

@MythosMayhem @ronhenzel What purpose is Paul conveying to Timothy by waxing spiritual about the singular/plural nature of the church? This is a personal and somewhat urgent instruction letter to Timothy due to his concern about the false teaching an...

@MythosMayhem @ronhenzel What purpose is Paul conveying to Timothy by waxing spiritual about the singular/plural nature of the church? This is a personal and somewhat urgent instruction letter to Timo

@MythosMayhem @ronhenzel Why then does Paul choose such a rare verb like authent

@MythosMayhem @ronhenzel Why then does Paul choose such a rare verb like authentein when he simply means authority?

@NicolasGold1 I should have made that an option. But as children, what does nat

@NicolasGold1 I should have made that an option. But as children, what does nature teach you? Nature teaches that arm hair and eyebrows stop growing at a specific length but hair on the scalp continu

@ronhenzel Further, this is why Paul reaches to a classical Greek word to get a very specific meaning: “to commit murder of one’s own kin by one’s own hand”—like how Eve handed the fruit to Adam and he ate and brought death to humanity, so also this ...

@ronhenzel Further, this is why Paul reaches to a classical Greek word to get a very specific meaning: “to commit murder of one’s own kin by one’s own hand”—like how Eve handed the fruit to Adam and h

@ronhenzel In isolation, it is generic. In the context of v14 where you have the noun repeated with the article, no you have a possibility it is specific. You have to ask questions like, “Is it referring to Eve or someone else? Why did Paul shift fro...

@ronhenzel In isolation, it is generic. In the context of v14 where you have the noun repeated with the article, no you have a possibility it is specific. You have to ask questions like, “Is it referr

@MythosMayhem @ronhenzel It says “saved through THE childbearing”—it is a definite noun, not a verb. Given that in the context, Paul is referring to Eve and connecting her situation as a prototype of a specific wife teaching heresy in Ephesus, Paul ...

@MythosMayhem @ronhenzel It says “saved through THE childbearing”—it is a definite noun, not a verb. Given that in the context, Paul is referring to Eve and connecting her situation as a prototype of

@KyleYoakum @ScottCross_8 But as part of the church, we are to show the kingdom

@KyleYoakum @ScottCross_8 But as part of the church, we are to show the kingdom way. Why would the church emulate an old system when we already know that former barriers have been torn down like the o

@ronhenzel Especially in the context where we have two anarthrous nouns. How do we decide? What is Paul intending in the context? Why not the personal pronoun? How is a generic woman saved through ‘the childbearing’ when not all women bear children...

@ronhenzel Especially in the context where we have *two* anarthrous nouns. How do we decide? What is Paul intending in the context? Why not the personal pronoun? How is a generic woman saved through ‘

@ronhenzel Why does Paul use the anaphoric to refer to Eve when normal usage is

@ronhenzel Why does Paul use the anaphoric to refer to Eve when normal usage is to use ‘she’?

@ScottCross_8 @KyleYoakum Is there anything in the context of Paul’s letter that

@ScottCross_8 @KyleYoakum Is there anything in the context of Paul’s letter that would help us decide whether this is related to angelic beings or human messengers (or as some have suggested, Judaism

@ronhenzel I asked that question about “what is ‘woman generically’” as I wanted

@ronhenzel I asked that question about “what is ‘woman generically’” as I wanted to know how you fit that into the context of Paul’s letter.

@ronhenzel That’s not how this works, Ron. You are just appealing to authority as if you or Wallace, despite all the training in Greek and grammar, are someone completely infallible and never make mistakes. Generic nouns are not unique to Greek. The...

@ronhenzel That’s not how this works, Ron. You are just appealing to authority as if you or Wallace, despite all the training in Greek and grammar, are someone completely infallible and never make mis

@ScottCross_8 @KyleYoakum Yes, I agree, but why involve the angels? How does thi

@ScottCross_8 @KyleYoakum Yes, I agree, but why involve the angels? How does this make Paul’s point if it is to show that she has the authority over her own head to make these decisions?

@ronhenzel @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @ymmotrojam @MikeWingerii Ron, this is not a defeater of my assertion that “the woman” is an anaphoric reference to “a woman.” Without v14 and the article, we would have more reason to consider vs11-12 ...

@ronhenzel @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @ymmotrojam @MikeWingerii Ron, this is not a defeater of my assertion that “the woman” is an anaphoric reference to “a woman.” Without v14 and the artic

@ronhenzel Yeah, so I really do love Wallace, but it doesn’t mean all his conclusions are right. “A woman” is generic until we hit v14 where we clearly see the anaphoric use of the article. There’s nothing in Wallace’s Greek Grammar Beyond the Basic...

@ronhenzel Yeah, so I really do love Wallace, but it doesn’t mean all his conclusions are right. “A woman” is generic until we hit v14 where we clearly see the anaphoric use of the article. There’s n

@KyleYoakum @ScottCross_8 I’ll have to take a look at what Bruce said but “symbo

@KyleYoakum @ScottCross_8 I’ll have to take a look at what Bruce said but “symbol of” is not in the Greek text.

@StevenMKestner In order to forbid something, scripture has to be unequivocal. Taken literally, the requirement is married with more than one child. Even Paul and Timothy don’t meet this…even Jesus couldn’t be an elder in His own church! The require...

@StevenMKestner In order to forbid something, scripture has to be unequivocal. Taken literally, the requirement is married with more than one child. Even Paul and Timothy don’t meet this…even Jesus co