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Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii ...women in leadership but are willing to work within a complementarian system and keep the peace, how is that a problem? There really was no sufficient answers to these things, but it did get this pastor to think as he ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii ...women in leadership but are willing to work within a complementarian system and keep the peace, how is that a problem? There really was no sufficient answers to these

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I was told that if I joined this specific church that I would have to stop leading the two Bible studies that I have going as if I was a member of their church, I wouldn't be allowed to lead since I wasn't a Calvinist an...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I was told that if I joined this specific church that I would have to stop leading the two Bible studies that I have going as if I was a member of their church, I wouldn'

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii In the example you give, you seem to be saying that if a group of leaders all agree on something (whether right or wrong), you have to listen and only if you can find a bishop or governing body over the leaders can you a...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii In the example you give, you seem to be saying that if a group of leaders all agree on something (whether right or wrong), you have to listen and only if you can find a b

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The scripture is contextual. If the imperative is "bring my parchments and my jacket" this is not meant as an authoritative command even for the person to whom it was originally written. Other imperatives were meant for ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The scripture is contextual. If the imperative is "bring my parchments and my jacket" this is not meant as an authoritative command even for the person to whom it was ori

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I've asked you for examples of what that authority looks like. You suggested that if a member asked you to step down you may not listen but if the pastor asked you to step down, you would. If the same reasons are given b...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I've asked you for examples of what that authority looks like. You suggested that if a member asked you to step down you may not listen but if the pastor asked you to ste

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii ...not giving general instructions to a church⎯tho

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii ...not giving general instructions to a church⎯though we absolutely can learn from his instructions to Timothy. I think you should not discount the specific woman view to

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The jumping around from plural to singular and back again is very unclear if Paul means women generically. To mix deception with generic people and salvation for those generic deceived people seems nonsensical. Paul is w...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The jumping around from plural to singular and back again is very unclear if Paul means women generically. To mix deception with generic people and salvation for those ge

commentary
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii And many other effects of sin that were not mentio

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii And many other effects of sin that were not mentioned by God in Ge 3. I think Ge 3:15-18 had particular application to Adam and Eve. The Pro 31:13,16 are pretty clear th

Ge 3:15-18 Pro 31:13 general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Let me rephrase. I don't rule my wife. I don't fa

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Let me rephrase. I don't rule my wife. I don't farm. Not every woman gives birth. However, we all sin and we all die.

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii What God spoke, He spoke to the man and the woman.

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii What God spoke, He spoke to the man and the woman. He didn't say that "all males that come after you will rule their wives." I don't rule my wife. Do you?

question
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Actually, I know something about that too. When I had two Mormon Bishops in my home, it was clear that God caused the fall so that they could become gods. So it was God's intention that man sinned. There is no overlap w...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Actually, I know something about that too. When I had two Mormon Bishops in my home, it was clear that God caused the fall so that they could become gods. So it was God's

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-08-01

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Surely there was a special application to their re

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Surely there was a special application to their relationship, though we can clearly see patterns throughout history of the mistreatment and subjugation of women. This is

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Today the husband is the head (source) of his wife

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Today the husband is the head (source) of his wife not because she came from his side, but because marriage is defined by the first marriage for which this was the case.

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Adam is the head of Eve, but not in the sense of h

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Adam is the head of Eve, but not in the sense of her authority or ruler (at least pre-fall). He is the source of Eve as she was taken from his flesh and bone.

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@RenOfMen Hmm. The women I know understand mutual submission. It seems it is rat

@RenOfMen Hmm. The women I know understand mutual submission. It seems it is rather the men who think they don’t have to submit. 🤷‍♂️

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii What is Paul's point using Eve as an archetype of

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii What is Paul's point using Eve as an archetype of all women (what you have said elsewhere is 'womankind')? Are you suggesting Paul is explaining to Timothy that all women

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@IiiPaulus @smashbaals Barak is a hero because he was even willing to listen to

@IiiPaulus @smashbaals Barak is a hero because he was even willing to listen to a woman because she was the mouthpiece of God. Barak humbled Himself and didn’t covet the honor of killing Sisera for hi

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii My thinking is that Paul suspected she would repen

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii My thinking is that Paul suspected she would repent of her false teaching and so why mark her name. Remember Jezebel? Further, Paul’s writing is God-breathed and so ulti

question
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii How could women prophesy to men which is by defini

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii How could women prophesy to men which is by definition authoritative and not teach truth to men? Why would Jesus be hamstringing half His body?

question
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul says that the saints will judge the world and angels (1Co 6:2-3) and Jesus will seat believers on His throne with Him (Re 2:26-27; 3:21). Why would that be a sin in the church for women if Paul even uses it to justi...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul says that the saints will judge the world and angels (1Co 6:2-3) and Jesus will seat believers on His throne with Him (Re 2:26-27; 3:21). Why would that be a sin in

1Co 11:10 1Co 6:2-3 Re 2:26-27 debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii If women cannot teach or pastor men, why can’t the

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii If women cannot teach or pastor men, why can’t they teach or pastor women? That has to be explained. So they could be teachers and pastors but just not over men? That mak

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, as I have demonstrated, there is another

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, as I have demonstrated, there is another plausible explanation for 1Ti 2:12 that refers to a specific woman and explains why Paul may have chosen such a strange

1Ti 2:12 debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii There are no verses of lists of sin that confirms

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii There are no verses of lists of sin that confirms that a woman teaching truth to men or pastoring is a sin. Deborah seems to be clearly violating this in the OT and God a

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii It’s not even an imperative. It was written to Timothy in a letter concerning how he should act to deal with false teaching. If women teaching truth to men is a sin or having authority over men is a sin that condemns wom...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii It’s not even an imperative. It was written to Timothy in a letter concerning how he should act to deal with false teaching. If women teaching truth to men is a sin or ha

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii But you are looking at an example. And this certai

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii But you are looking at an example. And this certainly is a valid option. Thank you for your humble probability calculation. I recognize that. But Paul’s context has to be

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I'm not sure what your point is. He concealed her

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I'm not sure what your point is. He concealed her name but Timothy was clear on who he was referring to. You have Paul concealing a command that women are not to preach

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, just like I'm not allowed to be a leader (eve

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, just like I'm not allowed to be a leader (ever) in 3 churches I inquired because I'm either not a Calvinist or because I'm egalitarian even though I would accept wor

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii In case you forgot, Peter recognized⎯and that's a

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii In case you forgot, Peter recognized⎯and that's a true contemporary⎯that people twisted Paul's words in other cases. This is no different, really.

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Because he also recognizes he is writing scripture

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Because he also recognizes he is writing scripture which will be read by the church even though it is not written to them originally.

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul is protecting this deceived woman by not nami

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul is protecting this deceived woman by not naming her like he names Hymenaeus and Alexander. Since this is a personal letter to a close companion, he only needs to com

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Is that how we determine Paul's meaning? That we h

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Is that how we determine Paul's meaning? That we have to find a corresponding example in extant Greek literature or it is not possible even if it fits many details in the

commentary
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You are the one that suggested asking you to resig

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You are the one that suggested asking you to resign. Please, can you explain by giving me an example where you would listen to the pastor because of his authority but not

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Where is a woman teaching truth to men ever listed

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Where is a woman teaching truth to men ever listed as a sin? If it is only with respect to 'authoritative teaching,' what exactly is that? Isn't God's word authoritative

question
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I understand you see this as speculative, but I never said it was the grounding of the whole letter. Your view has Paul giving a command to all women to not be in positions of authority over men in a personal letter to ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I understand you see this as speculative, but I never said it was the grounding of the whole letter. Your view has Paul giving a command to all women to not be in positi

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The corresponding idea is in 1Ti 4:12 “Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity." Paul encourages confidence and not shrinking back as he would n...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The corresponding idea is in 1Ti 4:12 “Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity." Paul encourag

1Ti 4:12 debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, that's what I meant. And while I may take a dissenting opinion from 'the vast majority' it is not without considering their reasons. Why are you framing my proposal as "certainties"? I am giving you my view and my ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, that's what I meant. And while I may take a dissenting opinion from 'the vast majority' it is not without considering their reasons. Why are you framing my proposal

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii If the pastor feels jealous of your ministry or fe

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii If the pastor feels jealous of your ministry or feels threatened by you, is that sufficient reason to demand you to step down because the pastor is an authority?

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Does "and subject yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ" (Eph 5:21) not apply between you and the congregant if what the congregant stated was God's will? On what basis is a pastor or elder demanding you step ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Does "and subject yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ" (Eph 5:21) not apply between you and the congregant if what the congregant stated was God's will? On w

Eph 5:21 question
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii There is no 'womankind' separated from 'mankind'⎯there are no kinds of humans like kinds of animals. Both male and female are humankind or mankind. The grammar doesn't agree with your proposal. She will be saved [future...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii There is no 'womankind' separated from 'mankind'⎯there are no kinds of humans like kinds of animals. Both male and female are humankind or mankind. The grammar doesn't a

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii If Paul is using Eve prototypically, then the same description of Eve's deception can apply to this specific wife teaching heresy in Ephesus. This solves the awkwardness of using 'the woman' to referred to Eve who is alr...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii If Paul is using Eve prototypically, then the same description of Eve's deception can apply to this specific wife teaching heresy in Ephesus. This solves the awkwardness

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You said I have to break the immediate context. But this is not the case if Paul is using Eve prototypically. What Paul writes, "but the woman..." sounds like it's referring to Eve, yet he already mentioned her name and ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You said I have to break the immediate context. But this is not the case if Paul is using Eve prototypically. What Paul writes, "but the woman..." sounds like it's referr

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You are correct that 'a woman' and 'Eve' are both anarthrous. I don't agree that the anaphoric use makes best sense referring back to Eve. Paul is using Adam and Eve prototypically which is why 'the woman' looks like Eve...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You are correct that 'a woman' and 'Eve' are both anarthrous. I don't agree that the anaphoric use makes best sense referring back to Eve. Paul is using Adam and Eve prot

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Thanks for the encouragement to spend more time studying Koine Greek, Raven. I am not an expert and am still learning, however, I do have sufficient resources to check and I didn't confirm my take on the subjunctive firs...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Thanks for the encouragement to spend more time studying Koine Greek, Raven. I am not an expert and am still learning, however, I do have sufficient resources to check an

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You know that T was admonished not to be timid (2T

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii You know that T was admonished not to be timid (2Ti 1:7), so the reason Paul is giving him ‘his’ authority is because T is timid. T is intervening between a husband and a

2Ti 1:7 debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Here we don’t see Paul commanding T to ‘command’ the false teachers but (in patience) to instruct them. If Paul is commanding T to give commands to the church then we would need to see the commands outside of Tim. In 1Ti...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Here we don’t see Paul commanding T to ‘command’ the false teachers but (in patience) to instruct them. If Paul is commanding T to give commands to the church then we wou

1Ti 2:12 debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The subjunctive can also express verbal action in terms of mere possibility. In Greek, it is the optative mood that points to possibility more than probability. It isn’t a strongly worded command and that is why (I beli...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The subjunctive can also express verbal action in terms of mere possibility. In Greek, it is the optative mood that points to possibility more than probability. It isn’t

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Let’s revisit 1Tim. Let’s look for commands. In 1Ti 1:3, Paul said that T should instruct others not to teach strange doctrines. The word for “instruct” can mean to command, but it is a subjunctive—the mood that normally...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Let’s revisit 1Tim. Let’s look for commands. In 1Ti 1:3, Paul said that T should instruct others not to teach strange doctrines. The word for “instruct” can mean to comma

1Ti 1:3 debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii This is because the church is not doing what they

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii This is because the church is not doing what they were supposed to. The whole church is not obeying Christ’s teaching and Paul is merely representing Christ’s teaching an

general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, not everyone is an elder. Gifting and proven

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, not everyone is an elder. Gifting and proven character are both imperative. Sorry if I misled you to think otherwise. But if the same thing was said by an elder or b

debate
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-31

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Does your pastor rule over you? Please explain to

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Does your pastor rule over you? Please explain to me in what way(s)? I’m honestly curious. What can he command you to do that you would not listen to if anyone else said

question
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