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Mike Winger idea 2020-01-08

Drew's Question 3: Why did God create animals with pain receptors? John McCrae responds: (1) animals don't experience pain "exactly the same" as humans — they lack equivalent emotional/psychological pain; (2) pain is necessary for survival; (3) "psychological trauma" in animals is overstated (sloth bear eating its own cubs, chimps killing young).

Response to Q3 — animal pain

John McCrae John McCrae anthropomorphism animal suffering
Mike Winger idea 2020-01-08

Drew claims God demanded animal sacrifice because he enjoyed it. John corrects: OT sacrifice was for atonement, an act of mercy, not divine enjoyment. Genesis 1:29-30 shows God originally created a vegetarian food chain — the current system results from the Fall. Drew ignores that Christianity's purpose isn't a pain-free temporal life.

Response to Q3 — sacrifice and the Fall

Genesis 1:29-30 the Fall animal suffering Genesis 1:29-30
Mike Winger idea 2020-01-08

Drew claims religious people invented doctrines to morally justify killing animals. John turns this around: on Drew's evolutionary morality, survival-promoting beliefs ARE morality — so religion doing this would be moral by his own framework. Also, most non-religious people eat meat too, so religion isn't the explanation.

Response to Q3 — evolutionary morality is self-defeating

animal suffering evolutionary morality
Mike Winger idea 2020-01-08

Cameron and Mike discuss animal suffering as a serious philosophical problem, but note: (1) atheism offers no solution to suffering at all, (2) Christianity promises resolution (Isaiah 11 — wolf lies down with lamb), (3) Stephen Wykstra's no-see-um principle: we wouldn't expect to perceive overarching goods from specific instances of suffering.

Animal suffering — atheism vs Christianity

Isaiah 11 problem of evil problem of evil skeptical theism
Mike Winger idea 2025-10-03

The Sadness of Animal Suffering: Why is there such a great amount of suffering that animals need to go through? Wouldn’t a good God create it to where the animals didn’t have to suffer and still feed us?

Q&A question: The Sadness of Animal Suffering

suffering