Mark

Kay

About Eph 2. Look again at what we are predestined for. It is not simply that the way to salvation is predestined (as Arminius taught) but us.

We are chosen in Christ before the creation of the world (Eph 1:4)

Now what are we chosen for? The rest of verse 4 tells us “to be holy and blameless in His sight”. Now let me aks you, how do we become holy and blameless in God’s sight. Hopefuuly we agree, that it is by being justified in Christ that we receive this status.

Therefore this verse is clear that we are chosen before the world to be justified and thus made holy and blameless.

Verse 5 expands this. We are predestined to be adopted as sons through Christ. Now again how is this done- justification is it not. So we are predestined to be justified. And to finish it off Paul says in verse 5 that this is done how? “in accordance with His (God’s) pleasure and will”.

It is clear that we are chosen to be sons, to be adopted, to be holy and blameless ALL before the creation of the world and ONLY according to GOD”S pleasure and will. There is nothing at all here that saids because of our free-will to choose him like you said.

It is you who is reading something into the text. I am letting the text speak for itself. This is clear in the fact that you say it “is a leap of logic’. I’m not interested like I said in philosophical reasoning. I’m only interested in what the Bible says. Please do justice to the text not your reason or logic on these issues.

Now you also addressed Romans 11 and asked this
“If the election is ordained from before time, how is it possible that the ‘elect’ should become ‘reprobate’ and the reprobate could become elect? Moreover, how could “unbelief” be a condition of severance, while “continuing in His goodness” be a condition of blessing, if there are no conditions?”

You have missed the whole point of Romans 9-11. Let me refer you back to 9:6, not all Israel are Israel. Paul is not saying that the ‘nation’ of Israel receives salvation. ON the contrary it is the remnant. So the elect have not become the reprobate, because as Paul’s argument shows, they were never the elect to salvation to begin with. It is clear that you don’t actually understand Romans 9-11.

Also no one saids that you don’t have to believe to become a child of God. Entry into the kingdom requires faith in the atoning work of Christ. The question is has God chosen before the world who he would give the gifts of faith and repentance too. The Bible says yes. So entry into the kingdom is of course conditional on faith, but election as recipients of this grace is unconditional on God’s choice before the world began.

Kay, let me challenge you to actually accept what the Bible teaches although you think it contradicts with your ‘reasoning’. We are all post enlightenment people and the effects of humanistic reasoning have damaged proper interpretation of the Bible. Our job is not to use or reason to contradict the Bible, but the preach the truth of the scriptures. You need to look beyond philosophy. I challenge you to do that (this is also in brethrenly love)