Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
It is interesting that you admit that the tense is not set as a past tense and the that it can be something that goes on and on and on if it is a participle. The grammar is present verb active participle. Perhaps you should take another look.

The grammar is consistent with Col. 2:13 and it is consistent with Romans 6:11.

You said:

Paul is relating between a previous condition (dead) and a new condition (being alive).

But Paul relates the condition in Romans 6:11 as both dead and alive. Since Christ died to sin and we are in Him, we are dead to sin and are to consider ourselves this way — yet alive to Christ since He is the one who died on our behalf.

The way I interpreted the passage is not invalid and is consistent with the rest of the Bible. I have a friend who writes Greek grammar books and I have discussed this issue with him. He has admitted to me that the grammar can be taken as present tense the way I describe it despite your assurance to Gazza that the grammar should be taken as a past tense and that the present is basically invalid. This is not true. Not only can the passage be taken as a continued being of our being “dead to sin” but the versions that show the grammar as a place of “being” is itself completely in union with what Paul writes in Romans 6:11. If God had wanted to make it clear that it was a past state, He could have inspired it this way, don’t you think?

This is something that we can all search and dig deeply into God’s word for the truth is worth the effort.

The question here is whether one must take the passage as if we were raised with Christ before we believed in Him. Was Christ “in” us before we were believers? There are so many questions that are needed to be asked and answered regarding the Calvinist position because any position that claims to be the truth should be able to withstand a challenge.

I sure do appreciate being able to dialog with Calvinists here as the safety of being brethren in Christ in a relationship of family keeps us able to dialog without fear of rejection. At least that is how I feel on my end and I assume (hope) it is true on your end too.