Cheryl Schatz

Mark,

To carry on with your comments:

“Yes. Permission is granted to anyone who is thirsty to come.”

You did not answer my question. Does God ‘grant’ everyone to ‘come/believe’, yes or no.

The answer is both “yes” and “no” because it is conditional. “Yes” in that permission is granted to anyone who is thirsty to come and “no” because those who do not respond to the light that God has given them are not granted the ability to come to Jesus.

I quoted the verse showing that any who are thirsty may come. Here are the verses for those who are not granted permission:

John 3:19–21 (NASB)
19 “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
20 “For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 “But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

-Those who do not want the Light and who love the darkness will not be brought to Jesus while those who practice the truth will come to the Light.

John 5:37–38 (NASB)
Witness of the Father
37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
38 “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.

-Those who refuse to have God’s word abide in them will not be granted to come to Jesus.

John 5:39–42 (NASB)
Witness of the Scripture
39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive glory from men;
42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.

-Those who are religious but who that do not have the love of God in them are not granted to come to Jesus.

John 5:44 (NASB)
44 “How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?

-Those who do not seek God’s glory but turn aside to seek glory from man will not be granted to come to Jesus.

John 5:46–47 (NASB)

46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.
47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

-Those who refuse to believe what God has already said will not be granted to come to Jesus.

Since none of your ‘proof texts’ show this it is easy to see that God does not allow everyone to come to Jesus. This is why Paul told Timothy to pray that God would ‘grant’ people to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

We can pray that a person will be brought to the place of repentance, but repentance is something that the person themselves must do. And if the person rejects God Himself, he may not be granted repentance just like Esau.

Hebrews 12:16–17 (NASB)
16 that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.
17 For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

You said:

Just because people are told to come to Jesus, does not mean they can or are able. Only God can make someone alive and new- he grants it.

God doesn’t demand that people come to Him for forgiveness and then refuse to give them what they need to obey Him. Only those who refuse to use what God has already freely given them will be disallowed to come.

I’m gald you admit that God ‘chose’ Israel over the other nations. Perhaps TL can now see that he/she does not understand God’s electing purposes for some and not for others.

But the election was not unconditionally for salvation. The election was for an earthly purpose as God’s representative on the earth.

“Please show me who are the ones that God wills to have mercy on and who are the ones that He chooses to harden? God gives His answer in the Scriptures. What do the Scriptures say?”

Now one example is God hardening Pharoah during the Exodus of Israel. The first mention to the hardening of Pharoah is from God in Ex 4:21- God will harden his heart. We see it again in Ex 7:3 that it will be God who hardens. Now this all BEFORE the plagues have even begun, so God is not secondary to hardening.

God explained his purpose to Moses that it would be for His own power to be revealed. However but His ultimate knowledge of what Pharoah would do is never done until Pharoah first hardens his own heart. The first time that it is mentioned that God hardened Pharoah’s heart was after Pharoah had hardened his own heart. God knew it would happen, but God did not strengthen Pharoah’s resolve until Pharoah had the resolve first.

Also we see God’s mercy on the Israelites over the Egyptians. God chose them over and above the Egyptians Ex 6:6-8. God will redeem them and THEN they will know that he is God. It is clear that God’s actions preceed the actions of the people. God’s mercy or hardening is not conditioned on what we do.

God’s choice for people for an earthly purpose is His choice alone. It is another matter regarding eternal salvation. We can talk more about this when we get to Romans. Let’s leave this one for now until we get there.

That’s all I could get through for today. I am back with family tomorrow so I’ll get back to your other comments as soon as I can.

Also, please make sure to keep us all up to date when your new baby arrives. What a blessed time this is for you!