Mark

Cheryl,

I agree with you that people cannot come to God because they do not love Him. But I guess the difference is because I believe that unregenerate people are unable (Rom 8:6-7 makes that clear).

However yo have still failed to show where the Bible teaches prevenient grace to therefore show people are able to do things which you believe are required. I disagree however with all the conditions you are adding onto salvation. Initally you just said faith but now you have extended that several fold all BEFORE one is even saved. For example here are your own words of conditions one must meet before being allowed to come to God- “practise the truth”, “have God’s word abide in them”, “have the love of God”, “seek God’s glory”, “refuse to believe”. So whats that…5 extra conditions one must meet before they are allowed to be saved. Please explain how you do not teach a works based gospel?

“We can pray that a person will be brought to the place of repentance, but repentance is something that the person themselves must do. And if the person rejects God Himself, he may not be granted repentance just like Esau.”

First, I would like you to be consistent In your claim of seeking the truth of the ispired grammar and actually deal with 2 Tim 2:25. If God has granted everyone the ability to repent (as you believe) why does Paul tell Timothy to ask God to grant it to certain people. Isn’t Timothy praying for something that God has already done? Also note the inspired grammar that siads God “grants them repentance” not “the ability to repent”. Repentance itself is something God grants- it is a gift. Second your own argument about Esau falls apart since the text you sight saids that Esau “sought for repentance with tears”. Why wasn’t he forgiven then? He sought repentance with tears! Clearly though it was not ‘granted’ by God to him.

“God doesn’t demand that people come to Him for forgiveness and then refuse to give them what they need to obey Him.”

Here is your wrong assumption again that God is obligated to us. Yes God does demand them to repent, yet while they are still in their sinful state they will never do it. God bestows mercy on whomever he wills and leaves the rest in their own sinful condition. This is again grace. Grace is undeserved mercy, not deserved mercy for my ‘good works’ or ‘conditions’ I have met.

“But the election was not unconditionally for salvation. The election was for an earthly purpose as God’s representative on the earth.”

Nonesense. “Not all Israel is Israel”- individuals? Mercy on whom he will- mercy is grace- individuals. Some clay for noble purposes, some for not- individuals. Objects of mercy/objects of wrath- individuals. Not to mention the end of chapter 9 and chapter 10 which is clearly dealing with salvation via faith not works. So again your presumption divorces the context of the passage.

“However but His ultimate knowledge of what Pharoah would do is never done until Pharoah first hardens his own heart.”
Does Exodus 4 and 7 say “God foreknew what Pharoah would do and therefore after Pharoah does harden his heart, then I will harden it”, or does it say clearly “that God will be the one who hardens Pharoahs heart”. The verse is not passive and observatory. Dance all you like, but the text speaks for itself. Again please be consistent with you interest in ‘precise grammar’.