Mark

Kay,

Thanks for the questions. Yes, i don’t think Cheryl’s exegesis is flawless and especially when comments like these are made “My view doesn’t have any holes and, my friend, you haven’t found any holes either. ”

You would think an overtly strong statement like this should be taken cautiously, as i attempt to do. Basically all i am looking for is to try and understand what verse 15 saids.

All Cheryl has stated is that the woman will be saved by being helped out of deception by her husband (the they). But how on earth does it relate to 15b… not at all as i can see. Cheryl draws a correlation with 1:6,7 but the problem is, the four conditions in 15b are not the same as 1:6,7 and the one to correct false teaching in chapter 1 is Timothy not the husband/wives of the false teachers. So the correlation falls apart leaving us with no satisfactory explanation of 15b. You cannot just pick and choose which parts to correlate and ignore the others.

And yes i lean on the traditional views becasue a) there are other better interpretations to help understand this verse and b) no-one in the world in the last 2000 years has come to the conclusion like this (unless you know someone else out there before Cheryl, becasue i don’t) and c) we live in a heavily egalitarian society that has potential to cloud biblical instruction. Combine these 3 and you get me being cautious of this interpretation.

As to not offering any evidence look here as i pointed out to Dave earlier http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/roles_kostenberger.pdf
and look at what Kostenberger saids about this verse.

i am not claiming to have the flawless verse…iv’e stated that all along, i just don’t think Cheryl’s if flawless either. I don’t see why it is a big issue to critique this…everyone is very defensive.

trustworhtiness (is that spelt right?) is a good point Kay, but yes we do have good reason to trust some exegesis over others. External evidence is one. Theological coherence is another and modern cultural tendencies to re-interpret passages is another. A person’s overt confidence in their own exegesis could be another.

Now Cheryl may be right, i won’t know that until i go to be with Jesus, but on the scale of hermeneutics, it is low on the list for the above reasons (and maybe others).

Cheryl may argue that it is flawless, but in reality i doubt many people would think so. It’s a guess on grammar, that’s all.

Anyway, Cheerio, i’ve offered my two cents worth and i hope Cheryl can clear some stuff up once she returns.

P.S I should state that although i strongly disagree here, i find it refreshing to dialogue with egals who do truly have a passion for upholding the Bible. This is most probably what i respect Cheryl the most for. You too Dave! 🙂