Craig
2010-09-22
This is the “meat” of the reply I am planning to send today.
“Thanks for the work you have done on this. Some thoughts that come to mind.
I agree that any language can be “more of an art in choosing from a number of possibilities rather than an exact science”.
I agree that by itself, the term “the woman” in v14b could refer to Eve, but I am not sure that I agree that it is the most natural or that v11,12 are “all the way back”. I could be talking to you about a woman, and then give a reason for her not to do something that could take several sentences to explain. But when I come back and mention “the woman” again you would know exactly who I am talking about.
Are you sure the lecturer is not making more of the “gar conjunction” separation than really exists? Paul seems to obviously be continuing on the same subject and giving the reason for what he has just said. There is no big separation that I can see. A new clause doesn’t mean the same thought process can’t continue. It is not a whole new subject. In the light of what I just said, the anaphoric use of the article would seem to very naturally refer back to the woman he is talking about in v11,12.
Are you really convinced about the faint echo idea?
Is your lecturer saying that the perfect verb can’t be referring to the Ephesian woman or just that it can be referring to Eve?
My understanding is that “woman” in v11,12 is singular but it is not quite accurate to call it “indefinite”. It is just “woman” and there is nothing “indefinite” in the Greek. It can be a specific woman or a general statement about women and we need to follow the whole passage to work out which it is. Greek experts on both sides that I have read indicate that there is nothing in the Greek of v11,12 to indicate specific or general. Look at Jn 4:7, Luke 8:43, 13:11. Is “woman” referring to a specific woman or women in general? There are numerous examples like this.
I would like to hear his defence of the NIV on v15. My understanding is that the Greek changes very clearly from 3rd person singular (she) to 3rd person plural (they). Does your lecturer know of any other time in the whole bible where 3rd person singular should be translated as plural? Any other time in Greek literature? If he finds one or some, is it common? One in a thousand? One in a million? What is the reason to translate it in a one in a million way? Why not just translate it as it actually says? Is it that it may not fit in with what they think the passage means? I think a better approach is to accept and try to understand what Paul actually wrote as inspired by the Holy Spirit. ”
Any other thoughts would be appreciated. I am no expert at all on these things. Thanks.
Your Tags
Personal labels you apply to any item — separate from system topics. Tags are shared across all databases. Visit /tags to browse all your tags.
...more
Personal labels you apply to any item — separate from system topics. Tags are shared across all databases. Visit /tags to browse all your tags.
...more