Chris

Cheryl, it seems to me that you have fabricated a rule of Greek grammar for yourself regarding what ‘she’ and ‘they’ can or cannot refer to in order to prop up your view on 1 Timothy 2:11-15. You then appeal to it as if it is some well known rule of Greek grammar that ‘she’ and ‘they’ cannot have the same antecedent. But where is the documentation? Please. You have pushily repeated this claim ad nauseam. As Rene Descartes has said, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. You have not met that burden.

Now, if one specific woman were in view, then I trust you will agree that the plural ‘they’ would more likely refer to a husband together with his wife than anything else. But, as I’ve already argued, husbands and wives are not in view here. So making the antecedent of ‘they’ out to be a husband and wife is almost certainly wrong. Even your own writers recognize the problems with this. See Linda Belleville’s article “Exegetical Fallacies in Interpreting 1 Timothy 2:11–15” in the Priscilla Papers (Summer 2003 17:3, page 4):

“Some translations have sought a way out by narrowing “women” and “men” to “wives” and “husbands” (e.g., Luther’s Bible [1545, 1912, 1984], Young’s Literal Translation [1898] , Charles B. Williams’ Translation [1937]). Lexically, this is certainly possible. Gyne¯ can mean either “woman” or “wife” and ane¯r can mean “man” or “husband” (see BDAG s.v.): “I permit no wife to teach or to have authority over her husband.” Yet, context determines usage, and “husband” and “wife” do not fit. “I want the men to pray . . .” (NASB, 1 Tim: 2:8) and “I also want women . . .” (NIV,vv. 9-10) simply cannot be limited to husbands and wives. Nor can the verses that follow be read in this way. Paul does refer to Adam and Eve in verses 13-14; but it is to Adam and Eve as the prototypical male and female, not as a married couple (“formed first,” “deceived and became a transgressor”).”

Notice here that Belleville answers the argument that the reference to Adam and Eve shows that a husband and wife are in view (a claim that was made here recently).

So, given the problems with taking ‘they’ to refer to a husband and wife (among other things), I have to return to the patriarchalist view that ‘they’ refers to the women in the church to whom Paul is giving instructions. And, I have to regard this alleged rule of Greek grammar you’ve put forward as implausible.

pinklight, hahaha. First, go back and see who you are quoting. Second, go back a read the reason I gave for Paul’s switch from plural to singular . . . then get back to me.