Cheryl Schatz

Under question #10 I asked:

If Adam was a leader of his wife, then he would have to be called to account for his failed “role” as a leader. Eve also would have to be called to account for failing to follow her “leader”. Did Eve get chastised for failing to follow Adam?

Once again you completely failed to address my questions. Instead of answering these questions you said:

10. I believe that i will be held accountable for my leadership or lack of as a husband and a father, in the same way that leaders of the church will be held accountable for the way they lead the church. Cheryl, do you think you will be held accountable for what you are teaching people about this issue?

We are each accountable for what we do, but we are not accountable for what others do. I will certainly be held accountable for the use of my gifts along with the teaching that I do, but please tell me how do you connect that together with being accountable for your wife? Where do you get that from the Scriptures?

You said:

a. Also you said “And no, Adam does not name her until sin enters the world. God names her “woman” first (Genesis 2:22) and Adam merely confirms that she is his uniquely own flesh and bone hence the God-term of “woman”.”
Really Cheryl? Where is it recorded that God call her ‘woman’ and not Adam. You say 2:22 but its not there.

You have twisted my words and claimed something that I did not say. I did not say that God called her woman. God named her woman. That is what I said. I have no idea of what God actually “called” her by name as the Scripture is silent on that. The fact is that Genesis 2:22 shows that she was namedwoman before Adam affirmed her as his flesh and blood. Would you please deal with this and answer it? How do you get Adam taking authority over Eve by his agreeing that she was “woman” as his own flesh and blood? Where does Adam or God say that this was an act of “leadership” instead of an acceptance of her very nature?

It says God made a woman not that God called her woman.

Honestly Mark, I think that you must just take what I write and it goes right over your head. Why else would you misrepresent me? The fact is that God created a “woman”. Do you agree?

When Adam speaks in verse 23 he names her ‘woman’ “she shall be called woman”. So Adam’s naming is pre-fall not as a result of his sinful nature to dominate her.

“Woman” is not her name. And God has already created her as “woman” so Adam’s recognizing that fact cannot be used to create an authority over her that isn’t there. God never tells Adam to take authority over Eve. Why?

In fact he gives her a glorious honouring name after the fall. There is no indication that her naming is due to sinful domination.

The fact is that Adam agrees that she is the mother of the living (in contrast to him being the father of the dying). However his “naming” her Eve after the fall cannot be used to prove his authority over her before the fall. The fact that he took sinful domination over her after the fall is undisputed. Even comp writers will agree to that. Whether Adam’s “naming” her Eve is a sinful act of not is not the issue here. The fact is that he didn’t “name” her before the fall so it cannot be used to prove that God’s plan was for Adam to have an authority over Eve. Can you prove otherwise?

“Give me just one verse that says that a husband has leadership over his wife.”
Simply Eph 5:22-23. Again you dismiss these type of passages because of the debate on ‘head’ but honestly how is the husband the source of his wife. Why is headship and submission related back to Christ and the church if it is only about ‘sourceness”. Makes absolutely no sense

So you have shown that there is not a single passage that says the husband is to take authority over the wife. And you make “head of” to mean “authority over“. Adam is the source of Eve. Is that disputed? How can a husband be the “head of” his wife in the time that this was written? By sacrificing for her and supplying as the source of her nourishment. He feeds her and cares for her as he does his own body. How is this same passage applicable today? The husband can still be the source of his wife by sacrificing to give her everything that she needs so that she can use her gifts without restriction and thus he lifts her up.

My husband has sacrificed for me and he has stood up for me when men tried to silence me. My husband has acted as a source of supply to open the door for me whenever he could so that I was allowed without hindrance to serve God. He became to me a source of encouragement and a source of life as one who lays down his life for his wife so that she (me) can bloom.

In what way have you sacrificed so that your wife can be all she can be in the Lord? What doors have you opened for her to serve that others tried to shut in her face? In what way have you lifted her up when she needed someone to speak on her behalf to stop someone from being prejudiced against her? How did you make sure that she could serve the Lord Jesus in every way that He has gifted and called her? Or have you made sure that she knows her place? Have you made sure that the doors are shut for her so that she cannot go through them? Where is a husband ever told to stop a wife from serving the Lord?

Finally regarding Hosea 6:7. You said that God calls Adam’s sin treacherous, but have failed to show 1 verse which explicitly has God saying ‘Adam’s sin was treacherous. The prophecy is targeted at Israel not Adam, so to emphasise Adam as the primary interest is wrong. A comparision is simply made to the covenant breaking of both Adam and Israel.

I didn’t say that Adam was the primary interest. I said that Adam’s sin is called treachery in Hosea 6:7. When Israel’s terrible unfaithfulness is compared to Adam’s sin, they are said to have sinned with treachery just as Adam did. Now can you please explain why the terrible sin of Israel is compared to Adam’s sin? Why are both called treacherous acts? Why do you ignore Adam’s sin as treacherous? Why do you equate Eve’s sin as equal to Adam’s sin? Is it because Adam must be lifted up in the eyes of complementarians in order to “prove” a male leadership in creation? Is it right to downplay the treachery of Adam in order to promote him as “leader”? How is it that God would take the treacherous one and make him the ruler over the woman? If he failed her before he ate the fruit, then how could God have confirmed a “leadership” and “authority” of the man over the woman after the fall?

I am not thrilled that we waited so long for you to answer but you have ignored almost all of my questions. Are you ever planning to actually answer the questions? If the comp position stands strong, it will not be by ignoring the hard questions. The truth is willing to answer questions no matter how hard they are. Error tends to skip over the hard questions because error is afraid. I trust that you are one who has a good heart which follows hard after the Lord Jesus. I encourage you to use that good heart to answer the questions without fear.