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@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii An elder has a special function and gifting in the body, but all in the body have the same authority to make disciples and to teach them to obey everything Jesus commanded to his disciples. Function—such as oversight—is ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii An elder has a special function and gifting in the body, but all in the body have the same authority to make disciples and to teach them to obey everything Jesus commande

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Do you submit to the authority of the “vast majority” of scholars? “A woman” is in vvs11-12 and “the woman” (who is not Eve) is in v14 and the subject of v15 and is the anaphoric use of the article to provide specificit...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Do you submit to the authority of the “vast majority” of scholars? “A woman” is in vvs11-12 and “the woman” (who is not Eve) is in v14 and the subject of v15 and is the

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I think that for your view of 1Ti 2:12, however, y

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I think that for your view of 1Ti 2:12, however, you cannot agree with my view of authority. It fundamentally undermines your perspective of this passage.

1Ti 2:12 debate

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I submit to any and all church leaders so much as

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I submit to any and all church leaders so much as they are not contradicting the word of God. I do all kinds of things that are not my preference as a way to serve leader

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I submitted to him by not forcing myself into leadership, but he doesn’t have the right to forbid what Jesus did not forbid, so he is in the wrong. If I am living in unrepentant sin and refuse to listen “even to the chu...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I submitted to him by not forcing myself into leadership, but he doesn’t have the right to forbid what Jesus did not forbid, so he is in the wrong. If I am living in unr

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii No doubt there are true boundary lines—but those a

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii No doubt there are true boundary lines—but those are established by Christ, not by the authority of an elder. I was barred from being a leader in a local church as I was

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Now, I would hope that an elder is one because of

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Now, I would hope that an elder is one because of their wisdom and knowledge of the scriptures and the gifting God has given to them, and I want to benefit from that.

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’ve done that for non-elders too because I follow Eph 5:21. We are to subject ourselves to one another in the fear of Christ. I don’t ignore a brother or sister who says the same thing to me because they are not an elde...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’ve done that for non-elders too because I follow Eph 5:21. We are to subject ourselves to one another in the fear of Christ. I don’t ignore a brother or sister who says

Eph 5:21 general

1Ti 1:19-20 1Ti 2:11-15 question

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Where? In 1Ti 2:11-15. Paul demonstrates mercy by

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Where? In 1Ti 2:11-15. Paul demonstrates mercy by not naming this woman teaching false doctrine and instructing that she be taught the truth. Paul does not instruct Timot

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Well, we are all to submit to each other because God has distributed His gifts differently to individuals and we are to benefit from these gifts and give of those gifts to others for their benefit (Eph 5:21). When you s...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Well, we are all to submit to each other because God has distributed His gifts differently to individuals and we are to benefit from these gifts and give of those gifts t

Eph 5:21 debate

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii In the end, Paul is clear that it is not on the basis of his authority that we listen to him, but upon the message and from whom the message comes—Jesus. Ga 1:8: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a g...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii In the end, Paul is clear that it is not on the basis of his authority that we listen to him, but upon the message and from whom the message comes—Jesus. Ga 1:8: "But ev

Ga 1:8 debate

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii A child has much less experience and so I would ha

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii A child has much less experience and so I would have more compassion on a child than on an adult. Even then, Paul seems to suggest that there are two kinds of false teach

1Ti 5:23 2Ti 4:13 general

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii For example—none of the following imperatives (commands) are binding on you or I, nor do I think even to those whom Paul was speaking to: 1. 2Ti 4:13: "When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, an...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii For example—none of the following imperatives (commands) are binding on you or I, nor do I think even to those whom Paul was speaking to: 1. 2Ti 4:13: "When you come, br

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Well, yes, there are commands, but these are not made up simply by authority inherent in Paul himself such that he could tell you to sit or stand and you would have to obey or be struck with lightning. There are also a ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Well, yes, there are commands, but these are not made up simply by authority inherent in Paul himself such that he could tell you to sit or stand and you would have to ob

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Maybe you could comment on the following verse abo

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Maybe you could comment on the following verse about Paul: 2Co 10:10: "For some say, 'His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his spea

2Co 10:10 debate

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’m still confused—are you taking authority in the sense of how certain or commanding the preaching is? Or perhaps, you are meaning that the preacher appears to know much more than me so I should take him at his word (as...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’m still confused—are you taking authority in the sense of how certain or commanding the preaching is? Or perhaps, you are meaning that the preacher appears to know much

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’m not sure what you mean by “teaching authority”

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’m not sure what you mean by “teaching authority” ⎯ teaching, yes. But authoritative? What is authoritative is God’s Word which hopefully the pastor is representing well

@smashbaals Please demonstrate where the Bible shows that Deborah the judge and

@smashbaals Please demonstrate where the Bible shows that Deborah the judge and prophet (mouthpiece of God and highest authority in the land) was God’s judgment on His people.

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The authority is not in the messenger but the mess

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The authority is not in the messenger but the message. This is a fundamental flaw complementarians (and Origen) make in interpreting αὐθεντεῖν in the context of Paul’s le

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The idea that speaking to men is taking authority

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The idea that speaking to men is taking authority over them is not a scriptural idea anyways. I don’t follow someone merely because they tell me something or make a claim

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I have no idea how Origen supports his view of a woman not having authority over men when it comes to Deborah. But I am not an expert on Origen and surely understanding Paul doesn’t require one to be an expert on Origen!...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I have no idea how Origen supports his view of a woman not having authority over men when it comes to Deborah. But I am not an expert on Origen and surely understanding P

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yet doesn’t Origen believe women cannot address a

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yet doesn’t Origen believe women cannot address a crowd containing men as even you admit that he doesn’t believe Miriam was speaking to the men but the women? So wouldn’t

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Clearly Origen is trying to take into consideration how women are to be silent and yet Miriam can address the assembly—his answer is that the silence has to do with having authority over men. Of course Origen isn’t takin...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Clearly Origen is trying to take into consideration how women are to be silent and yet Miriam can address the assembly—his answer is that the silence has to do with havin

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii So you have established that the verb cannot have

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii So you have established that the verb cannot have any usage related to murder? Or any negative meaning related to false teaching?

question

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’m what do you mean “pretty much every use of the verb”? Yes, I get my interpretation from how Paul uses the word in context. Somehow you get the meaning that Paul is stopping people from teaching true doctrine. I don...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I’m what do you mean “pretty much every use of the verb”? Yes, I get my interpretation from how Paul uses the word in context. Somehow you get the meaning that Paul is

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I never got that from reading Terran. I very much

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii I never got that from reading Terran. I very much appreciated the timestamps so I could watch the video and listen in context. Though I admit the most disagreement I had

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul purportedly says that a woman must not take authority over a man and uses creation to justify this. So I ask then where do Eve take authority over Adam or Adam over Eve? How then does creation justify such a stateme...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul purportedly says that a woman must not take authority over a man and uses creation to justify this. So I ask then where do Eve take authority over Adam or Adam over

Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-20

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii What authority was Eve taking over Adam? What does

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii What authority was Eve taking over Adam? What does her being deceived and him not being deceived have to do with her having authority or power? How is abuse of power or a

@curtisschlepp @JollyStine If you read 1Ti 3 overliterally an overseer has to be married and have at least 2 believing children. Those who read “husband” and rather than asserting married say “must be male” are not taking the text literally as they c...

@curtisschlepp @JollyStine If you read 1Ti 3 overliterally an overseer has to be married and have at least 2 believing children. Those who read “husband” and rather than asserting married say “must be

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Again, that's not my point. The noun authenteis is

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Again, that's not my point. The noun authenteis is being used in the sense of murderer. I'm suggesting that the noun and verb are certainly related and the meaning will d

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul uses this prototypically and so reaches for a specific word which illustrates what is going on⎯that a deceived and ignorant (and therefore unnamed) wife is teaching false doctrine and her undeceived husband (likely ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul uses this prototypically and so reaches for a specific word which illustrates what is going on⎯that a deceived and ignorant (and therefore unnamed) wife is teaching

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul sees a situation that is not unlike that of the garden of Eden⎯the wife is deceived and attempting to lead Adam into the same sin; the husband (Adam) is not deceived but silent, not correcting or protecting her give...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul sees a situation that is not unlike that of the garden of Eden⎯the wife is deceived and attempting to lead Adam into the same sin; the husband (Adam) is not deceived

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yeah, I don’t agree with Terran here. I don’t thin

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yeah, I don’t agree with Terran here. I don’t think Paul is drawing on the meaning to dominate. I don’t see how Eve was dominating Adam in Eden.

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii We also cannot constrain Paul’s meaning because we found a couple of texts that used it differently. Ultimately how Paul is using the word is dependent on the context, and Paul uses Adam and Eve and the deception in the ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii We also cannot constrain Paul’s meaning because we found a couple of texts that used it differently. Ultimately how Paul is using the word is dependent on the context, an

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, it is not that the noun and verb forms are completely unrelated but that Winger’s contention that the noun was not used to mean murderer in Paul’s time fails because it’s clearly present in a text Paul was quoti...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, it is not that the noun and verb forms are completely unrelated but that Winger’s contention that the noun was not used to mean murderer in Paul’s time fails bec

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Ultimately our understanding of the Biblical text is not driven by how a couple of unrelated texts used the word but Paul’s context and meaning. Since Paul quotes from Wis Sol it is a more relevant text when assessing th...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Ultimately our understanding of the Biblical text is not driven by how a couple of unrelated texts used the word but Paul’s context and meaning. Since Paul quotes from Wi

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii That is a mischaracterization of Terran’s point. His point was not about Paul’s love of Wis Sol but that Paul was familiar with a variety of sources which suggests his familiarity with the use of the noun as murderers. T...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii That is a mischaracterization of Terran’s point. His point was not about Paul’s love of Wis Sol but that Paul was familiar with a variety of sources which suggests his fa

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The idea that Paul’s use of an older word would be analogous to using King James-era English in modern speech to leverage its rich vocabulary is quite apt. It’s not about the typical audience but the precision and impact...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii The idea that Paul’s use of an older word would be analogous to using King James-era English in modern speech to leverage its rich vocabulary is quite apt. It’s not about

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii While it’s true that Paul, Philo, and Josephus addressed different audiences, it doesn’t preclude Paul from utilizing an older term which better his purpose. Just as modern speakers might use an archaic word to convey a ...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii While it’s true that Paul, Philo, and Josephus addressed different audiences, it doesn’t preclude Paul from utilizing an older term which better his purpose. Just as mode

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul’s audience in this letter is Timothy, a close partner whom he had mentored for years, and so Timothy would understand Paul’s language and intent, even if it included words with a historical connotation. Further, the...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul’s audience in this letter is Timothy, a close partner whom he had mentored for years, and so Timothy would understand Paul’s language and intent, even if it included

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, however, this does not prove that Paul didn't

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, however, this does not prove that Paul didn't look back to a classic form to convey the specific meaning he intended in 1Ti 2:12. Why wouldn't Paul use a common wor

1Ti 2:12 debate

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, the article highlights Paul’s familiarity

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, the article highlights Paul’s familiarity with the Wisdom of Solomon, which uses αὐθεντής to mean “murderer.” This indicates that Paul could have been aware of a

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Terran also presents evidence that Philo and Josephus, who wrote around the time of Paul, used αὐθεντής to mean “murderer.” This usage is considered within the context of their literary style and their audience’s underst...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Terran also presents evidence that Philo and Josephus, who wrote around the time of Paul, used αὐθεντής to mean “murderer.” This usage is considered within the context of

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Rather, Terran's article acknowledges that many in

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Rather, Terran's article acknowledges that many instances of αὐθεντής meaning “murderer” in or around Paul’s time can be attributed to Attic Greek influences, which aimed

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii ...being much less commonly used, requires careful contextual analysis to understand Paul's intent. So yes, word meanings do evolve over time, but just like we might go back to an older word to get at a specific meaning...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii ...being much less commonly used, requires careful contextual analysis to understand Paul's intent. So yes, word meanings do evolve over time, but just like we might go

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul uses the verb αὐθεντεῖν and not the noun form αὐθεντής in 1Ti 2:12. This distinction is crucial because verbs and nouns often carry different nuances and implications. The noun αὐθεντής historically means ‘murderer’...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Paul uses the verb αὐθεντεῖν and not the noun form αὐθεντής in 1Ti 2:12. This distinction is crucial because verbs and nouns often carry different nuances and implication

1Ti 2:12 debate

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, whatever Wolters and Winger think the word means in other contexts still does not address how Paul intends to use the word and the contextual details he draws upon, that Timothy at least must have understood Pau...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Further, whatever Wolters and Winger think the word means in other contexts still does not address how Paul intends to use the word and the contextual details he draws up

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, Winger says very clearly that context is king and believes he is examining Paul's context. I really don't recall him drawing much on chapter 1 in his interpretation of chapter 2, so I challenge him on his examinatio...

@ravensfoodblog @MikeWingerii Yes, Winger says very clearly that context is king and believes he is examining Paul's context. I really don't recall him drawing much on chapter 1 in his interpretation

Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-16

@dadbodchess @MrEncouragement @smashbaals No, but the RNC is not a church.

Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-07-16

@MeridithABlack @MikeWingerii Well, the reason I asked was because it was Mike that said that I need to repent for propagating what I believe the scripture teaches about women in pastoral ministry which disagrees with what he says it teaches—somethin...

@MeridithABlack @MikeWingerii Well, the reason I asked was because it was Mike that said that I need to repent for propagating what I believe the scripture teaches about women in pastoral ministry whi