Alex

Cheryl, I understand what you’re saying, and I would agree with you if you defined complimentaryism by that definition. However, I don’t.

Two things:

1) I do not believe that every wife should always submit to her husband in every circumstance. If what he thinks is best goes against what the Bible teaches, she should not follow him. If what he thinks is best is illegal, she should not follow him. These are huge areas that many of the examples you (and many other people on this forum) mention that I would agree with. Also, if a woman feels a strong desire to go a direction different from what the husband feels, it is extremely important for both of them to understand why.

2) If the husband and wife disagree about everything, then there are much bigger issues than complimentaryism. If the husband is always exerting his authority then he is ignoring his helper and (i would argue) is being both unbiblical and abusive.

And I would say you have the definition of complementaryism wrong.

“complementarianism is the “right” and the “duty” of the man to be responsible before God to “lead” a woman and “grow” her because God has placed upon him the responsibility over her and for her as one who will give an account before God for her.”

Complementaryism is the calling of the man to be responsible before God to lead and grow his wife within the marriage. In the same way the wife is called to encourage and grow her husband. This doesn’t mean the husband makes all the decisions (as I mentioned above).

and for a scripture:

Ephesians 5:22-33 “Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the Body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself to her, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His Bones. ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh.’ This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.”

It is important to note that verses 22-24 is for the wife, not the husband (and as such the husband should not learn leadership from these verses).

It is also important to look at the phrase “Husbands, love your wives just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her.” To really understand what it means to love like Jesus loved, you must to a fairly indepth study to the scriptures finding out how Jesus loved the church. Then (and only then) can you truly understand what it means to love sacrificially.

-Alex

P.S. – As a side note, I really appreciate this conversation. This has both helped me to understand egalitarianism better and to re-evaluate some areas of complementaryism that I hadn’t fully mapped out before. I greatly appreciate your input and perspective. At this point we are more or less at an impasse. I will continue to read your blog posting from time to time and will read any responses to this posting (especially responses to that scripture). I thank you so much for your civility towards me and my differing opinions and I hope you feel the same way about my responses!

pinklight:

You asked for an example, so here is one I have seen.

In one instance a husband and wife were trying to decide whether they wanted to home school their children or put them into either public or private school. The wife was home schooled growing up and was more inclined to home schooling. The husband wasn’t against homeschooling, but had his doubts that it was feisable in their house. The reason? They have 5 children of varying ages and the wife in this situation is not a very organized person. She is educated, but she does not have much of a teaching gift and (as I just mentioned) she is a very unorganized person. The two of them went out and looked at a wife variety of Public and Private schools in there city and found multiple schools that they agreed with that would also be great for educating their children.

There is nothing biblical that defines how we educate our children. It is not sinful to go one way or the other. However, after doing this research the wife still felt she wanted to home school and the husband felt that it wouldn’t be best for her. After long discussions on both sides they could not come to an agreement. The wife wanted to home school and the husband felt they shouldn’t (because it would wear on the wife too much).

In the end, to make this decision, since they could not agree he finally asked her to trust him and to allow him to lead her in this way. She agreed (though she still felt she was right). Several years later she is so glad for this decision. She realizes she wouldn’t have been able to handle teaching 5 children of varying ages amongst all her other responsibilities. She is thankful for his leadership in this area even though she disagreed at the time. Her entire reasoning for wanting to home school the kids was because she was home schooled as a child.

There is an example of the trump card. It’s purpose was to make sure both the wife and the children received the best possible outcome regardless of what they wanted at the time.

You may disagree with this outcome, but she doesn’t. She is extremely grateful. These are the kinds of situations married couples find themselves in. And if a husband is truly leading his family, praying and fasting and reading the scriptures, listening to what his wife has to say, and taking in all the facts in a situation, then in these situations it is not wrong to do what he did.

I don’t assume that at all TL. You reading your ideas into the words on the page. I never said the woman was inferior to the man. However, she is also not superior. Both are sinful, both are God driven, and the husband should never make decisions without the wife (as the wife should never make decisions without the husband).

However, what is to happen when a situation arises where a decision MUST be made and the husband and wife cannot agree? After prayer and fasting they continue to disagree. After looking into both sides heavily they continue to disagree. After searching the scriptures they continue to disagree. And yet a decision must be made. It is in these instances that God calls the wife to submit to the husband. Not because she is inferior to the husband (she is neither inferior nor superior). And not because she is immature (they are both equally mature and able to come to conclusions rationally and properly). She is called to submit because a decision MUST be made. These are extremely rare instances and are the only time the husband is to use his leadership to overrule his wife. Could the husband be wrong? Yes of course, men are just as fallible as women. But if no decision is ever made then nothing will happen and the situation will be a disaster. And if you truly follow the word of God, the use of this authority is only authorized for the betterment of the wife!

(As a side note: the husband I am speaking of is a man of God who earnestly wants to serve his wife, the one you speak of is a man who is in need of church discipline and time in the word.)

Also, in complementary marriage it is important to note that the husband is called to love his wife as Christ loved the church. That means he is to give up everything for her. That means in everything he is to love her, to constantly do whats best for her, and if the situation arises he is to die for her.

When there is danger, the husband is the one who is called to be in it. When there is violence, the husband is called to protect the wife. When evil men and women are attacking her with their words, her husband is called to take the attack and defend her from their words. Not because she can’t handle it, but because in loving your wife as Jesus loved the church husbands are to sacrificially give up everything for their wives.

And in the same way the wives are called to do the same for husbands. Not because the husband is an authority over the wife (he is not! They are equals) but because she is responding to his love the way the church is called to respond to Christ’s love.

(and when I say grow and cultivate it doesn’t mean she is an inferior who must be turned into what the husband is. I mean she must be sacrificially loved in such a way where she can be who God made her to be. Growing and cultivating is helping her to become who she feels God desires her to be, not who the husband thinks she should be.)

Chreyl said:

“My husband was gracious and humble enough to admit that he did not have the ability to mold me into the vision he had for me and he did not have the ability to understand what was the best decision for me as a person. By making all the decisions in the marriage it only kept me in a dependent state unable to be mature. It wasn’t until he gave everything over to God and allowed me to fall down on my own that I grew tremendously. No longer did I need to have my husband make my decisions so I wouldn’t fail.”

This is not complementaryism. It is not that the husband makes all the decisions for the wife and the wife just has to follow suit. The husband is called to lead the wife, but that doesn’t mean he decides everything. When the wife is called to submit it does not mean she blindly does everything her husband wants. Even Jesus questioned God’s call in the Garden before his death!

No, a complementary marriage is one of communication. One of mutual agreement. Where the “submission” comes into play is those areas where the husband and wife just cannot agree. I do not mean minor areas like “what radio station we should listen to” but major areas that could greatly effect the future of the family. In these instances the husband and wife are to discuss thoroughly the issue, pray and fast for the issue, and try in every way to come to an agreement. If an agreement cannot be made, then the husband is called to make a decision and the wife is called to submit. This is a huge difference from what you wrote about with you and your husband.

You also said: “I don’t see leadership as something that a wife needs from her husband as if she is unable to reach maturity and must have a leader over her. ”

The husband is only called to be the leader in the marriage. This does not mean he lords himself over his wife or that he makes all the decisions or that he is necessary in her continues growth. God is the one who ultimately grows everyone. I would argue, however, that God uses the husband to grow the wife and the wife to grow the husband, otherwise marriage is useless.

As for what it means to be the leader in the relationship: The husband is called to grow and cultivate his wife. The wife’s calling is first and foremost to support her husband, but his calling necessitates that he support her as well. He is called (as her leader) to encourage her to grow in her giftings and desires. These two ideas do not have to be in conflict.

I will attempt to come back and see if there is a response (I clicked the check mark that should notify me if you respond) but I hope my explanation of complimentaryism helps in some ways. I honestly believe you have an wrongful view of what complimentaryism is, and as such you may in time come to hold more of its truth than you believe.

your sibling in Christ,
-Alex

PS – obviously this is more an open handed issue, your disagreement does not upset me or cause me to doubt your salvation! However, I believe this is also an important issue and one that should be continually discussed among believers