foggy

Greetings again, I have really enjoyed exploring your site with its extensive research and insightful contributions as I struggle through the Greek and its understanding for women’s freedom. As I mentioned before (another of your posts) the same use of the word SWQHSETAI is in John 11:12. And –she- has been discussed too.

From the context that the passage is about – teaching – if teknogonia is parenting/child raising and in child raising there is teaching and discipleship or even if it WAS child birth process (rather than parenting)……..then, in the context of the CHURCH birthing new converts as in, sheep begetting sheep……….we could have the meaning to be “ yet the SHE (the church/bride) will be OK, brought through the peril of deception, of being seduced through the birthing of new Christians and teaching/discipling them correctly as in nurturing/parenting, if they remain in………..i.e. the sheep or baby Christian converts,………. remain in love and holiness with sensibility (i.e. not become a wild rabble of a young church and a dysfunctional body).

How does this measure up please? i.e. to be the church not a female person?
Thank you for helping me to continue this exploration

mmmmmm yes, that is so true re the childbirth process and the verb scenario. Unless perhaps that teknogonia is to mean the parenting or child REaring rather than Bearing as in the child birth process, and parenting as a NOUN

At first, when I considered v14 in the Greek, that Eve/the woman, being seduced, as a result of that i.e. being seduced, that perhaps “has become beside stepping” (literal Greek translation). While almost all translations seem to make this word parabasis as transgression, I did wonder whether it actually meant, “distracted” or easily side tracked as in side stepping and that caring for children would preserve a woman from the peril of being side tracked i.e. to focus and not be as easily distracted, but then I thought that would be too random since children are a big distraction leaving little time for preparing to be able to teach (which is where the context follows in terms of women teaching)…………. so I went back to the childbirth idea, but I am keen to know the truth here, certainly it is not a salvation scenario.

I enjoyed Ben Withererington’s detail on the passage though I did not get closure myself on v15. Did he review and respond to your DVD? see http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2006/02/literal-renderings-of-texts-of.html

SWQHSETAI DE DIA THS TEKNOGONIAS, EAN MEINWSIN EN PISTEI KAI AGAPHi KAI
hAGIASMWi META SWFROSUNHS.
James Moffatt’s translation of 1 Tim. 2:15:
“However, women will get safely through childbirth, if they continue to be faithful and loving and holy as well as unassuming.”

in view of the fact that ancient childbirth is by no means without risk of life (Euripides’ Medea, remember, says she’d rather face the foe with a spear on the battlefield three times to giving birth once!), and given the fact that, outside of the theological sphere, SWZEIN most normally DOES mean “bring safely,” “preserve through peril,” “keep intact” (as in the parable of the wine and wineskins; I tend to think of getting safely through a semester!), the first clause of Moffat’s translation seems very natural.

In John 11:12 the same use of the word SWQHSETAI meaning “preserve through peril” is appropriate to for our fond friend Laz and never translated as such nor as ‘saved’. Translations have so many opinions, one needs the Holy Spirit with reliable Greek Interlinear.