Cheryl Schatz

Mark you quoted me and then said:

“Ephesians 2:8, 9 is not talking about faith as a gift because the term is singular and faith is said to be the thing that the gift (salvation) comes through. If faith were also a gift, then the Greek term would have been plural.”

Not true. Notice in verse 8 what is the first word. It is the feminine definite article encompassing the entire verse “by (the) grace you have seen saved, by (the) faith. The definite article links into the noun ‘faith’ sandwiching everything in between, therefore the singular supports that, since what is in view in the singular gift is the whole statement “by grace you have been saved through faith”. (The) grace and (the) faith are both gifts but expressed in the singular because of the precise grammatical construction. They are not of ourselves so we cannot boast. Your point is wrong.

Actually, Mark you are the one that is wrong. “This” “gift” is neuter not feminine so it does not refer back to the feminine faith. It is referring to salvation not to faith. If Paul had wanted to make faith a gift, he should have used the dative as this case refers to the person or thing to which something is given a perfect match if it is a gift.

dative — The case that is regularly used for indirect objects and the objects of some prepositions. The dative refers to the person or thing to which something is given or for whom something is done.
Heiser, M. S. (2005; 2005). Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology.

The dative case is also used in Ephesians 2:5 of “grace” so grace is a bona fide gift.

Also you stated that it is “the” faith but the definite article is not in the oldest manuscripts although it is in the KJV. So if you look in an interlinear for the NASB you won’t find the definite article there with the feminine “faith”. Without the definite article, faith is anarthrous and should be treated as a quality or principle. It is also genitive which makes the thing or the person the source or possessor of something. If Christ was the possessor of this faith then Paul should have added the genitive “of Christ” to show Christ as the owner of the faith.

“Grace” is the objective and effective cause or the source of salvation and its position in the sentence as first is given the prominence or emphasis even more than “through faith”. But again the netuer case for gift doesn’t refer back to grace but to salvation since grace is also feminine.

There is also a double negative in verses 8 & 9 that are connected together. In verse 8, it is “not of yourselves” and in verse 9 it is “not of works”. Both refer back to salvation, so through the precise grammar in the text with the neuter for “gift”, the double negative in verses 8 & 9 that refer back to salvation and because only (the) grace is in the dative with “faith” without the definite article and in the genitive, the “gift” is seen to be salvation and not faith.

Nothing you said here disproves my point. In fact your own source cited that it is something ‘given’ to the believers. That is, anyone in Christ has nothing to boast about precisely because it is God who gave them their salvation including their faith.

Salvation is what is given to believers by grace through faith. If God wanted us to know that it was faith that was the gift then there were several very easy ways for Him to have structured the text:

1. The genitive (of Christ) could have been used with faith showing that Christ owns the faith
2. Faith could easily have been in the dative form to show that it was a gift.
3. “Gift” could have been in the feminine plural to show that faith was meant as a gift or one of the gifts given by God.

Once again we have a passage that has precise grammar missing that would have made sure that we were aware that “Faith” as saving faith is God’s gift rather than our faith which is a response to God’s work in our life.

Also remember that the genitive case denotes possession and In this case who is the faith linked back to- God. It is the gift of God.

Sorry, Mark but the neuter goes back to salvation not to the feminine faith so what is “of God” is salvation not faith.

So therefore again the greek grammar proves my precise point. Faith in the genitive is the possessive of God

But again, Mark, “faith” is feminine and “gift” is neuter so you cannot point faith back to the possessive of God.

more later….