Drew's Question 4: If God knows who will choose him, why not only create those people and skip earthly suffering? If free will is the answer, that implies heaven lacks free will (since there's no suffering there), making earth better than heaven.

Presenting Drew's argument — why create the non-elect?

Cameron responds: 3 of 4 questions are really just versions of the problem of evil. Questions are not arguments — they require structured premises and conclusions. Cameron identifies three goods requiring earthly existence before heaven.

Response to Q4 — questions aren't arguments

Good #1: Freely choosing to enter a loving relationship with God is a great good — a love potion analogy shows forced love isn't real love. Good #2: Alvin Plantinga's supralapsarianism theodicy — the Incarnation and atonement (Christ dying for those who hate him) is among the greatest conceivable acts of love, only possible in a world with sin.

Response to Q4 — goods requiring earth (love and atonement)

Good #3: Soul-building theodicy — suffering provides opportunities to develop character virtues (sacrifice, courage, compassion, forgiveness). Good #4: Robin Collins' connection-building theodicy — virtuous responses to evil create valuable relationships that grow infinitely over time.

Response to Q4 — soul-building and connection-building

Q: Matthew 6:33 — seek first God's kingdom and he'll provide necessities. But Christians sometimes lack essentials. Mike's view: this is a general promise with exceptions. Paul experienced hunger, nakedness, and need (Philippians 4:12, 2 Corinthians 11:25-27) while faithfully serving God. Suffering doesn't invalidate the promise — it's for God's greater purposes.

Q&A — Matthew 6:33 and Christian suffering

Not going to church during a pandemic is wisdom, not fear. Two types of fear: (1) terror about what might happen (unnecessary — God is sovereign even in worst outcomes), (2) proper respect/prudence that avoids testing God. Proverbs 27:12: "The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it."

Wisdom vs fear — prudence in Proverbs

Matthew 27:46 ("My God, why have you forsaken me?") — Jesus is quoting Psalm 22, which his Jewish audience would mentally load in full. Psalm 22 describes crucifixion in detail (pierced hands/feet, bones out of joint, garments divided, dehydration), then shifts to RESCUE and resurrection, followed by Gentiles from all nations worshipping God. "Forsaken" = given over to suffering and death, NOT Trinitarian separation. The Father/Son cannot ontologically separate without violating God's nature.

My God why have you forsaken me — Psalm 22

Context: Mark 8-10 reveals the messianic mystery — Jesus has TWO comings (suffering first, glory later), but the disciples only expect one glorious military conquest. Their argument about who's greatest stems from thinking they're about to rule in an earthly kingdom. They're wrong about both timing and values.

Context — the messianic mystery in Mark

1 Peter 2:24 ("by his wounds you have been healed") does refer to physical healing in Mike's view, but the TIMING is the issue. Many benefits of the cross aren't received now — we still die, still have corruptible bodies. Full physical healing comes in the resurrection. It's theologically inconsistent to demand healing for the common cold while accepting death from old age. The "healing in the atonement" teaching overreaches on timing, not content.

Healing in the atonement — timing issue

Theological insight from the predictions: Jesus saw his death as purposeful sacrifice, not tragedy. He predicted specifics: delivered to chief priests, condemned, handed to Gentiles, mocked, spit on, scourged, killed — and rise three days later. Progressive Christians who reject substitutionary atonement must explain why Jesus described his death as sacrificial and purposeful in his own words. The predictions show Jesus understood himself as Isaiah's Suffering Servant.

Theological insight — purposeful sacrifice, not tragic death

The crowd adds "blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David" — not from Psalm 118 — reflecting their political expectations. The OT sometimes calls the Messiah "David" as a typological title.

Analysis of the non-Psalm 118 addition in Mark 11:10

Argument 4 — "Religion is desperation, fear of reality" (Nietzsche) — is circular (assumes atheism is reality) and actually describes Buddhism more than Christianity. Atheism itself denies key realities.

Fourth argument from Nietzsche: religion as escapism

Four theodicies provide a cumulative answer to the problem of evil: soul-building, free will, natural law, and skeptical theism.

Detailed treatment of theodicies responding to the problem of evil

The problem of evil is the #1 argument that practically draws people away from God, but Christianity alone offers both intellectual answers and emotional/pastoral hope — atheism offers neither explanation nor solution.

Pastoral conclusion on the problem of evil and summary of all 5 arguments

Overview: Mark 11:22-25 is the #1 Word of Faith verse. Winger approaches it by sidebaring the Kenneth Copeland debate to first understand the passage in its original context, then apply it.

Introduction to Mark Series pt 43 on prayer, faith, and Mark 11:22-25

Mark 14 (Gethsemane) is the intentional counterpoint to Mark 11 — Jesus with perfect faith, no sin, no unforgiveness prays and God says NO. Faith means trusting God both when he says yes AND when he says no.

The missing piece: Jesus' Gethsemane prayer as counterpoint to the prayer promise

Conclusion: Mark 11 teaches new-covenant prayer through Christ, accessed by faith (not works). Real faith believes both for miracles AND in suffering when God says no. The harder path of faith is trusting God's "no."

Summary of the full teaching on prayer from Mark 11 and 14

A consistent OT pattern: it's the LEADERS of Israel who persecute God's messengers (Jezebel vs. Elijah, Saul vs. David, people of Ephraim vs. Gideon, King Jehoiakim vs. Jeremiah). The motive: wanting power, credit, and avoidance of suffering.

OT examples of leadership rejecting prophets and application to modern rejection of the gospel

Isaiah 53:4-5 is the crux: "he was pierced FOR our transgressions, crushed FOR our iniquities; the chastisement that brought us peace was UPON HIM." The word "chastisement" is ALWAYS affliction from God in the prophets. Isaiah 53:10 confirms: "it was the will of the LORD to crush him."

Detailed exegesis of Isaiah 53:4-5 and 53:10 establishing PSA

Bible Contradiction?: Can you explain the what appears to be contradiction in 1 Kings 7: 26 and 2 Chronicles 4:5, due to the different numbers?

Q&A question: Bible Contradiction?

Fruit of the Spirit – Longsuffering: Could you please explain what longsuffering means, in regard to the fruit of the Spirit?

Q&A question: Fruit of the Spirit – Longsuffering

Trusting God in Very Difficult Times: Do you have any advice for dealing with a miscarriage? It’s the first time in my life where I’ve been angry at God. I know He’s sovereign, but it’s difficult to accept right now.

Q&A question: Trusting God in Very Difficult Times

Biblical Help when Struggling with Infertility: I recently have had intense disappointment and grief in my life re: fertility and am struggling with not knowing God's path for my life. Do you have any biblical help to heal and move forward?

Q&A question: Biblical Help when Struggling with Infertility

Does the P. of Talents demand Physical Work?: My preacher uses the Parable of Talents to say we must go out to do work for the Lord. I have chronic illness and I don't have energy for stuff outside of my family. Does this mean I waste my talents?

Q&A question: Does the P. of Talents demand Physical Work?

About Jesus’ Suffering: Did Jesus need to have suffered the most pain ever for Him to be worthy to save us? How should we answer the objection that some people have supposedly suffered worse pain, i.e. from torture or the Holocaust?

Q&A question: About Jesus’ Suffering

How to Be Content While Suffering: God has blessed my life and I know it could be worse, but I'm severely disabled and sometimes I feel so trapped in my body that I want to die, but know that I can't. How do I learn to be content?

Q&A question: How to Be Content While Suffering

Why does God Allow Children to have Cancer?: Why does God allow children to get cancer and other terminal illnesses?

Q&A question: Why does God Allow Children to have Cancer?

Can God Give Commands when He Forced us to Exist?: Is it fair for God to demand our everything when we are forced to exist? I know Christ died for us, but it seems unfair to go through such suffering and sacrifice to receive salvation and avoid Hell.

Q&A question: Can God Give Commands when He Forced us to Exist?

What does it Mean to “Share in Christ’s Sufferings”?: When we share in Christ’s sufferings, does that refer only to suffering that comes in opposition to doing God’s will, or can it also include something like suffering through a disease or a loss?

Q&A question: What does it Mean to “Share in Christ’s Sufferings”?

“My Yoke is Easy” vs. “Take Up Your Cross”?: I’m confused about why Jesus says “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden” but then instructs us to pick up our cross (of suffering?) and follow Him. That sounds like a heavy burden to me, to try to love and obey Jesus perfectly.

Q&A question: “My Yoke is Easy” vs. “Take Up Your Cross”?

Resolving a Scriptural Discrepancy: In the KJV, 2 Kings 8: 26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2 give two completely different ages for Ahaziah when he took the throne. How can we account for this?

Q&A question: Resolving a Scriptural Discrepancy

Encouragement Amid Physical Limitations: What counsel would you give a discouraged believer with a debilitating chronic illness who carries a lot of guilt for not being able to serve in the ways they want to be able to?

Q&A question: Encouragement Amid Physical Limitations

Is My Daughter’s Cancer a Punishment?: When I got pregnant from an ungodly relationship, I turned to God and know He forgave all my sins. But my daughter was born with cancer. Is this a punishment from God?

Q&A question: Is My Daughter’s Cancer a Punishment?

How to Biblically Process Grief: How do we deal with grief in the right & biblical way? I lost my dad months ago by sudden death. I feel worried, I’m angry, and I cry. I’m so tired of the rollercoaster feelings.

Q&A question: How to Biblically Process Grief

Animal Death Before the Fall?: If animal death occurred prior to the fall, wouldn’t that mean God called animal death/suffering “very good?” If we later see a wolf dwelling with a lamb, wouldn’t that indicate that prior to the fall, that was what we had enjoyed?

Q&A question: Animal Death Before the Fall?

Were Christ’s Sufferings Lacking Something?: In Colossians 1: 24, what is lacking in Christ’s sufferings, and how is Paul contributing to them?

Q&A question: Were Christ’s Sufferings Lacking Something?

Why does God Heal Some Cancer but Not All?: I have a neighbor who can't get past this question: “My dad had cancer and died. You [me] had it and lived. Why does God think that's fair?”

Q&A question: Why does God Heal Some Cancer but Not All?

The Problem of Evil: Why is there so much suffering if God is good? If He is almighty, why doesn’t He stop all the bad things?

Q&A question: The Problem of Evil

Did God Create Cancer?: If God created everything, why did He create cancer? As a Christian mother, I still struggle with these sorts of questions.

Q&A question: Did God Create Cancer?

God’s Creation of Those Who Would Fall: If God is all-knowing and foresaw the suffering that would result from the fall of Satan, Adam, and Eve, affecting billions, why would He create them, knowing the pain that would follow?

Q&A question: God’s Creation of Those Who Would Fall

The Sadness of Animal Suffering: Why is there such a great amount of suffering that animals need to go through? Wouldn’t a good God create it to where the animals didn’t have to suffer and still feed us?

Q&A question: The Sadness of Animal Suffering

Discouraged by Free Will: My son is bothered by free will because it causes so much pain and suffering and that God foreknew we would sin. How can I encourage him?

Q&A question: Discouraged by Free Will

Attitude towards Suffering

Peter following Jesus "at a distance" is a literal physical description, not an allegory for halfhearted discipleship. Allegorizing clear narrative details damages biblical literacy and leaves congregations unable to handle false interpretations they will encounter later. Peter's actual situation shows a man confused by suffering he couldn't reconcile with his vision of the Messiah.

Warning against allegorizing historical narrative; proper interpretation of Peter's presence

Isaiah's four Servant Songs (Isa 42, 49, 50, 53) form a unified prophetic arc pointing to Jesus. Isaiah 50:6 — "I gave my back to those who strike me, my cheeks to those who pluck out the beard; I did not cover my face from humiliation and spitting" — is fulfilled in the mocking scene at Jesus's trial, showing the OT and NT are deeply integrated, not incidentally connected.

Isaiah's Servant Songs as OT prophecy fulfilled in Jesus's suffering

Winger shares from his own childhood: an absent/indifferent father, an abusive stepfather, and poverty — all three conditions the note-writer listed as grounds for abortion. His life was redeemed and transformed through Christ. He argues the pro-choice logic, applied to him, would have called for his death, yet God demonstrated that suffering circumstances do not determine a life's value or potential.

Personal testimony used to refute the claim that bad circumstances justify abortion

The pro-choice logic of "this child will suffer, so it's merciful to kill them" parallels suicide logic: if a life is going to be hard, end it early. Applied globally, it would justify aborting virtually all children in sub-Saharan Africa. The Christian answer to suffering is not termination but redemption, care, and help — the "take care of them" solution rather than the "kill them" solution.

The "merciful abortion" argument compared to suicide logic; global poverty counterexample

The note-writer describes death as a tragedy but then proposes death as the solution to potential suffering. This self-contradiction reveals the deeper issue: pro-choice reasoning treats the baby as "not yet in the world" because they haven't crossed the threshold of the womb — a distinction without moral significance, since the baby exists and has biological life inside the womb.

Internal contradiction in the note: death as both tragedy and solution; the "not yet in the world" fallacy

The maximal data argument for the resurrection has two steps: (1) establish that the gospel and Acts accounts represent genuine eyewitness testimony, then (2) evaluate what best explains the content of those claims. The apostles voluntarily suffered imprisonment, persecution, and death for their testimony — making the conspiracy/lying hypothesis highly implausible (William Paley, 1794).

The maximal data argument: apostolic suffering establishes sincerity; conspiracy hypothesis fails