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All (18) Mike Winger (18)
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mistake #4: Believing that equality of personhood philosophically rules out differences in roles. Mike introduces Rebecca Merrill Groothuis and her work.

Mistake #4: Equality of personhood rules out role differences

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis equality of personhood role differences
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's argument appears in chapter 20 of 'Discovering Biblical Equality' — a brand new edition of the premier egalitarian multi-author volume that Mike read including an advance copy.

Mistake #4: Equality of personhood rules out role differences

egalitarian scholarship Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Discovering Biblical Equality
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's syllogism: if women's subordination is permanent, comprehensive, and ontologically grounded, then women are inferior persons; women are not inferior; therefore subordination is unjustified.

Mistake #4: Analyzing Groothuis's syllogism

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Discovering Biblical Equality syllogism
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mike agrees women are not inferior persons but argues that submissive roles and inferior personhood are not the same thing — children submit to parents, employees to bosses.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Groothuis's syllogism

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis submission vs. inferiority personhood
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's three qualifications — permanent, comprehensive, ontologically grounded — do not describe what complementarians actually believe or what the Bible teaches.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Groothuis's qualifications

complementarianism Rebecca Merrill Groothuis permanent subordination
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Rebuttal: women's submission is not comprehensive — Groothuis claims there is 'no area in which a woman has any authority, privilege, or opportunity that a man is denied,' which massively overstates complementarian claims.

Mistake #4: Rebutting 'comprehensive'

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Discovering Biblical Equality comprehensive submission
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's argument only works against an extreme form of complementarianism that most complementarians would also reject — it attacks a straw man.

Mistake #4: Straw man critique

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis straw man argument relational submission
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Rebuttal: women's submission is not ontologically grounded — it is not rooted in women's nature making them inherently submissive.

Mistake #4: Rebutting 'ontologically grounded'

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis ontological grounding nature vs. assignment
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis defines 'human' as having higher rational functions including decision-making, then argues that denying women leadership over men is inherently dehumanizing.

Mistake #4: Analyzing Groothuis's definition of human

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis definition of human dehumanization argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mike argues unexpressed human capacities do not make someone less human — children who die young have unexpressed capacities but are not less human.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Groothuis's definition of human

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis dehumanization argument unexpressed capacities
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

The Levite analogy: Levites had exclusive priestly roles based on tribal lineage (nature), not ability — yet non-Levites were not less human. Groothuis addresses but does not defeat this.

Mistake #4: Levite analogy against Groothuis

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Levites priestly roles
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's rebuttal that prophets had more authority than Levites is a red herring — Levites were the regular, widespread spiritual authorities throughout Israel.

Mistake #4: Levite analogy — responding to Groothuis's counter

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Levites prophets
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Additional analogy: only a son of David could be king of Israel — this eliminates most people from the highest authority by nature, yet does not make them less human.

Mistake #4: Davidic kingship analogy

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis nature-based roles Davidic kingship
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

A possibility Groothuis ignores: role can be associated with nature but not grounded in nature — God assigns roles by association, not by saying one nature is inferior.

Mistake #4: The overlooked possibility

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis associated vs. grounded divine assignment
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Possible non-inferiority reasons for role differences: picturing Christ and the Church, societal order, or unstated divine purposes. Groothuis rejects all of these.

Mistake #4: Alternative explanations Groothuis ignores

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Christ and the Church Eph 5
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Even if Groothuis is right philosophically, her conclusion explicitly blocks Bible reading — she says there can be 'no biblical or theological warrant' for women's submission, which pre-determines what the Bible is allowed to say.

Mistake #4: How Groothuis's argument bypasses scripture

bypassing scripture biblical authority Rebecca Merrill Groothuis
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Both Groothuis and Payne's philosophical arguments kill Bible study by leaving only two options: the Bible supports egalitarianism, or the Bible is wrong.

Mistake #4: Conclusion

bypassing scripture Philip Payne biblical authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-07-18

Contextual/Bible study argument: Ronald Pierce and Rebecca Merrill Groothuis claim Paul only reinforces 'source/provision,' not authority

Mike presents the egalitarian contextual argument from Discovering Biblical Equality.

Ephesians Colossians kephale Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Discovering Biblical Equality