Charis

Isn’t it comforting to know that all authority belongs to God?
ever so comforting….

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

They think that as he did not actually say it about you, and merely repeated it, he is innocent. I see this as very dangerous thinking.

Especially for the one who think that way!!!
Its called enabling self-justification.
BTDT (been there and done that).
I put my dh on SUCH a pedestal.
He could do no wrong.
It was really quite idoatrous 🙁

When you said you were stuck at 12, do you mean you were physically 12 years old, or that you didn’t mature emotionally past 12 even though you were older?

I mean that part of me stopped growing right there at 12, so I handled some things very immaturely. For one, I had what I refer to as “brain freeze”. Whenever I felt attacked in any way, my ability to reason shut down and I was helpless to defend myself. I literally NEVER backtalked to my husband or defended myself. I assumed that was disrespectful and unsubmissive. When my first daughter came home from college, I thought they had turned my baby into a FEMINIST! She had her own OPINIONS about stuff!

I have been in recovery for 3 years. Recovery is very like growing up (at long last!) and learning to speak up as an adult woman. I was terrible at it at first. I could really see how, in many ways, my children are far far more mature than I, and very wise. They speak into my life.

And God provided me with an anointed male Christian therapist who was able to BE Jesus with skin on for me and two older women mentors who are walking with me. Very like a daddy figure and a mommy figure to rewrite the bad stuff. I think churches need wise, spiritually mature elders to do this for their members. Note 1Thes 2:7 and 11.

Oh, and as for the woman in authority who sounds quite angry about “husband as master”
She’s trapped. She thinks submission means obedience.

I somaticized for many years… had migraines, stomach trouble, depressed… But then when I started counseling and recovery from the CSA I had rage episodes where I could really be quite abusive toward my husband. I didn’t have any power to stop the abuse in childhood… and I didn’t think that I still had any power as a grown woman to stop abuse, because I want to please GOD and GOD wants me to submit to my husband and if submission means obedience then 🙁

Cheryl, I don’t cry when I get abused. I get angry.
Really I and he are so much better but it has not been an easy road.
And I had to STOP the obedience and stand up for myself and my children!

In answer to your question a few posts up…
I’m gonna tell you probably more than you wanted to know 😉

What is at the root of this kind of obsession with power and control?
Well, in my dh’s case, he was sexually abused with porn exposure (and possibly sodomized) in preschool. His daddy saw him doing something in the barn that 4 year olds don’t know how to do unless they have been abused, and his daddy was afraid he was going to be a homosexual…. soooo the men in the family pushed porn on him, by the time he was 12 yo the walls of his room were plastered with porn. The intense control issues are because he didn’t have control as a pre-school child.

Empathy develops in children around age 6. If a child is seriously traumatized at an age earlier than this, they do not develop empathy, they are “arrested” at the age of trauma. Men without empathy are capable of hideous crimes; they have no empathy. I am in recovery from childhood sexual abuse. I read a book and the description of the “traits of a sexual offender” sounded very much like my husband! People abused like him grow up and abuse others! That one reason I think God put us together. I was stuck at 12 and totally compliant. He didn’t need to look for a child. He married one.

Sound like a lot of psychobabble?
But I think there is scripture to support the woundedness of these people. Personally, it really bugs me when Christians are so hateful toward homosexuals. Homosexuality is a fruit of SEVERE PAIN AND TRAUMA in childhood! Jesus came …
…to preach the gospel to the poor;
…to heal the brokenhearted,
…to preach deliverance to the captives,
…and recovering of sight to the blind,
…to set at liberty them that are bruised, Luke 4

Jesus’ approach is not “shame on you, you wicked SINNER!”
NO! Jesus came to “set the captives FREE!”
HE has compassion; HE has empathy!

Dear Cheryl,

I saw it. I just went walking and prayed for you.
OH how I want to go and post something!
He used to call the children “stupid idiot!” and “if you had a brain it’s be lonely!”. When we got into marriage counseling, he changed it to “you’re ACTING like an idiot” and somehow thought that made it “right”. 🙁

Shake the dust off your feet.
If he has a wife and children pray for them.
I’m sure you are not his only target!
FWIW, I don’t agree that YOU should apologize.
I went to therapy for 3 years. One time he told me the way he can tell I’m still a victim is that I apologize when I didn’t do anything wrong. Apologizing to a bully enables them, makes them believe they are right.

Here is a prayer which I used from time to time.
If its good enough for Paul, its good enough for me 🙂

2Ti 4:14 “Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:”

oops, when I copied it, I missed a line from the book…
about God’s unconventional approach to impossible odds 🙂

from Drawing Close by Graham Cooke :

This great God will send us into battle against impossible odds with a seemingly ludicrous battle plan March around the enemy for seven days and then shout, He’ll say, winking at you the whole time.

It reminds me of the Ten Commandments where Charlton Heston as Moses stands on the shore of the Red Sea and says (approximately) “Stand back and Behold the Salvation of our GOD”
Its when things appear impossible that GOD will be glorified.

Praying for you, Cheryl.
I wish I could help financially,
but… hubby keeps tight control on the purse strings.
Where in Canada?
Would there be an option of moving some of the ministry to the US?
(that’s my pragmatism speaking, not necessarily God’s solution)

Here is something from Graham Cooke Drawing Close about God’s approach to problems:

The Holy Spirit wants to do two things with us: First, He intends to get us to a place where we trust God for everything and with everything; and second, He seeks to bring us to a place where He can trust us. The Father will always trust what He sees manifested of the Son in our lives…. the inhabitation of Jesus. It’s a pleasure to trust God, knowing that His great love will catch us, even if we fall off the edge of a cliff. This great God with a seemingly ludicrous battle plan March arougn the enemy for seven days and then shout, He’ll say, winking at you the whole time. “Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves,” He says (Luke 10:3). Fortunately, you’re a lamb with a Lion as friend.

I see you as one whom God trusts, Cheryl.

I think the church is full of children in adult bodies. Its a product of the times… the sexualized culture, last days, lots of abusiveness by “authority figures”. As children, they got wounded by those in authority and they get stuck and have “authority issues”…. and “the sins of the fathers are visited upon the children…”

I’ve been there. I was blind.
Here is the way out:
“The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of his power toward us who believe” Eph 1:18-19

Here’s the thread where I did my own thinking about 1Tim 2:11-15

http://www.familylife.com/community/forums/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004303#000000

(You’ll have to fill me in about how you get your links so nicely formatted, Teknomom)

Charis, surely you know that blog profiles aren’t always in the blogger’s control. Blogger and Myspace put an astrological sign on your profile whether you want it or not, simply because you enter your birthdate.

OK. I am new to looking at blogs. I was a regular at http://www.familylife.com/community/forums/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi and that was enough. Left there recently. I did check several other profiles from that blog and they didn’t have Zodiac signs attached to their profiles. I’m sorry for assuming that you had chosen to allow that. (BTW, I had noticed that some time ago. I didn’t go digging for it today.)

Anyway, I dislike taking Cheryl’s blog off topic. I feel disrespectful doing so, so I’m not going to add more off topic posts.

As for y’all being called “feminists” take it as a badge of honor.
“Christian” was coined to be derogatory.

PS. Can I be concerned for you, Teknomom? Do you have an astrological sign and a Zodiac year listed in one of your blog profiles? I spent a lot of time on spiritual warfare on behalf of my husband (and children) breaking strongholds and generational curses which have come from occultic dabbling in my husband’s background. It wasn’t even a BIG occultic involvement, but it only takes a little crack in the door… “sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you”

Dear Teknomom,
Your concern for me is really very sweet. Thank you.
You needn’t worry. I think it was on your blog where I read that Christ lovers should be having to disciplining themselves to stay AWAY from their immersion in HIS Word lest they have no time for other things. I identify! For my first 25 years as a Christian in 12 different denominations (my husband has had 11 jobs and we have lived in 6 states and two foreign countries) I became like unto the Revelation church of Ephesus. By golly, I persevered, but it was a legalistic dutiful relationship and I had lost the first LOVE! Now I have it, and there is no turning back. …

And while you are thinking what a teeter tottering heretic I must be…. I agree with Henry Cloud who wrote in Changes that Heal

It is interesting to compare a legalistic church with a good AA group. In this kind of church, it is culturally unacceptable to have problems; that is called being sinful. In the AA group it is culturally unacceptable to be perfect; that is called denial. In the former setting, people look better but get worse, and in the latter, they look worse but get better. Certainly there are good churches and poor AA groups, but because of a lack of grace and truth in some churches, Christians have had to go elsewhere to find healing.

Personally, in 25 years as a Christian, in 12 different denominations, I never found healing for being raised in a controlling abusive alcoholic home. That’s not the churches’ nor God’s “fault”, but I have learned that GOD does not live in a Baptist Box! 😉

Oh and to really seal your skepticism about me, I LOVED Captivating by the Eldredge’s, and it was in Sacred Romance by Curtis and Eldredge that I first discovered that anyone else besides ME knew about the kind of INTIMACY I HAVE with Christ. (I really wondered about my own sanity- I can feel it so much…)

So, don’t worry about me, Teknomom.

Lighthouse Trails Research.

I went and had a look. Didn’t see anything about Joyner, but they are sure against the emerging church! And I am trending FOR it, not because reading some of the authors has convinced me…. because my own experience and my growing knowledge of God is convincing me… Its too hard to condense that into a short post… but
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”

Beth Moore in the opening DVD lesson of Beloved Disciple quotes John 5:37-40 and urges that we not fall into the trap of searching the scriptures without ever coming to Jesus for LIFE!
Christianity is a relationship, not a “religion”!
Beth Moore in Believing God makes a point of having ladies from all different denominations sit up on the stage to represent the unity of the body of Christ: Protestants, Catholics, Pentecostals, Lutherans, Baptists, etc. I reference Beth Moore only because of her reputation and respectability as a good Baptist. I LOVE Beth Moore. And she “gets it”!!! I can tell!!!

To hit closer to home, after your experiences at the CARM board,
do you think that malice, reviling, and slander come from the Spirit of Christ?
or antichrist?

I just wanted to mention that back when I prayed about the interpretation of the book of Revelation, the Lord led me to some wonderful online books here:
http://www.justworship.com/
I read the first two cover to cover (and even underlined!) and found them full of scripture and resonating with me entirely.

BTW, Technomom, I would venture to guess that 5 years as an LCMS Lutheran and my time as a missionary had much more impact on my view of Revelation than reading a few chapters written by Joyner. (Literally, I have not even read one of his books cover to cover.)

I am very into Graham Cooke right now. I can’t even pick out quotes from his books because I couldn’t STOP. They are THAT RICH!
Warfare Worship 🙂

When one points out the errors of the visions of Rick Joyner, they are considered the enemy and are considered on Satan’s side. This is where we just about lost our daughter. The former youth pastor ended up leaving our old church and took much of the youth with him. He had written his own book about his own visions of talking with the dead and my daughter was editor of that book. It is a long story but a sad one where we fought hard to save the young people who had become followers of the youth pastor and his visions. We were successful with our daughter and she is safe but we lost most of our youth. As a result of our working with the elders of our church, (we had educated them concerning all the deviation from scripture that the dead people in our youth pastors visions were teaching) our church banned the youth pastor’s book from the church and that particular pastor ended up leaving the church because he refused to come under discipline because of the unscriptural nature of his book and he pretty much took the youth group with him. They went where they could all experience the supernatural without having to test these experiences by the word of God.

The necromancy does sound odd and manifestly unbiblical. However, I have personally seen nothing of that in what I have read of Joyner’s. And frankly, having read a few pages of “The Final Quest” online, Joyner’s imagery strikes me as NO different than that in CS Lewis Chronicles of Narnia (I could post a quote where Lewis paints a word picture of sanctification as the Lion Aslan taking the dragon skin off from Edmund, but I won’t take the space on your blog for that- I really like that quote though 🙂 ) NOR is Joyner’s imagery much different than that in the book by Hannah Hurnard Hind’s Feet on High Places nor John Bunyan’s book Pilgrim’s Progress (didn’t he write that when he was in prison as a heretic?). If you took the writings of John Bunyan or CS Lewis and put the microscope on them and did exegesis on them as if they were scripture, SURE you could find all kinds of things that you could label “heresy”! I just don’t think they are intended to be authoritative like scripture! It doesn’t mean that we can’t glean some truth from them.

As for the church split, isn’t that the story of Christendom? It happened between Paul and Barnabas in Acts 15:39-40 “And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other” The church I attend NOW split off from a Wesleyan church because of an outpouring of the Holy Spirit with supernatural manifestations which was quenched by the then leadership of that Wesleyan church. My present church is under the covering of Elim Fellowship which accepts the supernatural. (The church split happened in the 80’s- long before we joined; but we joined out of a Wesleyan Church where I felt my spirit being quenched)

2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come 2 For men shall be…. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Pe 3:3 ¶ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

What do you think of the FACT that somewhere @ 50% of “christian” men use porn?
Would they be walking in the Spirit of CHRIST?
or would that be the spirit of antichrist?

Is there HOPE for them?

I believe so! God gave me 1John 5:16 to pray…

NO you are not “the enemy”!
Actually I only read a few chapters in the one book (and just this am I found a link to an online book- The Final Quest, which BTW has some of the quotes you referenced in your post). SO I am by no means a “Joynerite”- to coin a term. I was saved in 1979 through the “ministry” of a cult group (The Forever Family), so I have a long history of God using what was meant as a snare for good in my life.

But, I won’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. The whole Hal Lindsey, Late Great Planet Earth “theology” of Revelation never sat right with me. When I was an LCMS Lutheran in the 90’s I did an in depth study of Revelation (LCMS Lutherans are Amillenial). Personally I chose pan-millenial: “it’ll all pan out in the end”. But recently, when I was looking at Adam and Eve, 1Tim 2:11-15, I picked up the Bible and read from Rev and was confused by it and PRAYED that GOD would show me. Then I picked up Joyner’s book (which is borrowed and had been sitting around untouched for ages) and found the synthesis/the continuity which he presents of Adam and Eve and the trees with Revelation.

Nope, I don’t follow Joyner. I don’t follow Chip Ingram, James Dobson, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, or John MacArthur. I don’t follow Beth Moore. And I don’t follow Cheryl. Though I have listened to all of them and have learned from all of them. But, I want to follow Christ. And I am very open to learn. And I do trust you, Cheryl. I find you trustworthy. I doubt you are always right. But you are trustworthy.

You mentioned the difficulty with your daughter. My 12 yod seems quite taken by “Blue Like Jazz”. She is saying she is like Miller, doesn’t like the “religion” and wants a relationship. I am somewhat concerned that she isn’t mature enough to sort out the facts from the opinions and could get off track in a similar fashion… So I know what you mean.

But I also know what Rick Joyner means about the “religious spirit”. And I think I know what John- the apostle means about the “spirits of antichrist”.

If any of the above post resonates with you, then think again about 1Tim 2:11-15 together with the entire chapter of Rev 12 and remember that until 100 years ago it was universally accepted that women are “more easily deceived”. Couldn’t Paul’s words in 1Tim 2:11-15 be prophetic: for TODAY?

from There Were Two Trees in the Garden by Joyner

The Revelation was not given to John only to unfold a coming sequence of events- it was given as a “Revelation of Jesus Christ” (Rev 1:1)…

In John’s vision, there is also a great deal about the anti-Christ, or “the man of sin”. This man of sin is the personification of the sin of man. This is our basic nature until we are changed in Christ. This is the mature fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. The root and power of the man of sin is the serpent; the beat had to be fully revealed in man- whatever is sown must also be reaped. In this beast we see ourselves without Christ. By this revelation we begin to perceive the depth of the unfathomable grace and mercy of God and our profound need to be reborn in Christ.

John further explains: “Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six” (Rev 13:18 ) The number is not taken arbitrarily. Because man was created on the sixth day, the number six is often used symbolically in the Scriptures as the number of man. This number is further identification of the spirit of the beast, which is the spirit of fallen man. In verse 11 we see that this beast “comes up out of the earth”. This beast is the result of the seed of Cain having been a “tiller of the ground”, or earthly-minded. The beast is the embodiment of religion that originates in the mind of man. It comes up out of the earth in contrast to Christ who comes down out of heaven…

If we are trusting in our knowledge of good and evil to discern the beast, we will easily be deceived. The nature of the beast is rooted just as much in the “good” that is in man as it is in the evil. Satan comes as an “angel of light” or messenger of truth, because good has always been more deceptive than evil. It was not the evil nature of the Tree of Knowledge that deceived Eve; it was the good. The “good” of the Tree of Knowledge kills just as certainly as the evil.

So, you see how the beast is “everyman” and “everyman” has a war within between Christ and antichrist?

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth (3670) that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth (3670) not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

One of the definitions for spirit/ pneuma is “the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one”
And the word translated “confesseth”
Its not a mere verbal assent as to Jesus identity as the Son of God. Even the demons gave mere verbal assent to that! It is coming into agreement with the Son in DEED.
Confess= 3670 homologeo: from homo- together; logeo-Word
And “in the flesh”. WHOSE flesh? I think it means MY flesh, your flesh, “everyman’s” flesh!

Here is another passage the Lord gave to me recently:
1JN 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. [19] They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

I discern the Lord telling me (for my marriage) that the antichrist spirit within each one of us us will GO OUT from among us because they do not belong to us! (The antichrist being that beastly sinful “disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul”)

Scripture is not dead words to a church 2000 years ago.
Its alive and active, sharper than any double edged sword.
Ro 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

I linked to that article onto Matt’s site and then figured out how to copy the article with the graphics so that those on Matt’s site can be blessed by it too without having to go off of his discussion board. I appreciated that you got my mind going on how I could do that. Unfortunately that again left my own blog without my attention. Ahhhh!!! We leave tomorrow for a week in Pennsylvania on a ministry trip and when I get back I will take the time to go through all of your questions.

I looked around at your links and found out where in PA you’ll be (because I’m only about an hour from the border of PA), but its too far to drop in on you 🙁

It really ministers to me that you remembered me (even though reading through your material over at CARM has clarified much)! AND I saw the thread with the graphics in it- that is perfect, even better than a link! Your thoughts on that topic struck me so redemptively…

When you get to thinking about my questions… Personally, I feel compelled to take 1Tim 2:11-15 as a parallel passage with 1Pet 3:1-6 and I take the “disobedient husband” in 1Pet there as inclusive of a disobedient “Christian”/pharisee husband. I just have a feeling that all you who want to look back at who the letter was written too aren’t getting how its supposed to give hope to ME who is really rather trapped with a rebellious Adam of my own. I have absolutely NO aspirations of doing any kind of Christian ministry. (And I spose I am really out of place on YOUR blog, except I have wondered about the passage so much and turned it over so many many times in my mind…) I aspire to survive a very difficult and painful marriage to an abusive patriarchal man and to be the WIFE and the MOTHER HE has called me to be. And GOD is helping me. In fact I consider HIM my husband who rules over me and I am relieved that my earthly husband’s delusions of “authority” are only delusions and “Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me’.”

Bless you on your ministry trip.
You are a really good teacher!
I have a group of friends who meet for bible study and we have discussed the women issue a TON and I am going to send them to your blog here and maybe get the DVD’s to study myself (they aren’t as geeky as I am about wanting to understand how the original languages read )

A mocking answer seems to be the only answer that they can give when they have nothing else to refute me. It is just so sad. This also answers why mocking and disrespect is the norm for these kinds of people. They believe that women are not allowed to teach with biblical authority and so automatically someone like me is a terrible sinner. This is how they treat sinners.

But scripture tells us otherwise. Brethren in Christ must be treated with love and respect and if they are in error, they are to be gently corrected with love. Fact is I feel no love from these people and it makes me wonder why. What is the true heart condition that shares no love with a brother/sister?

The Lord showed me that when someone sins against me, I can PRAY that LIFE will come out of it!
1JN 5:16 “If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. ”

I have sinned and I have seen God forgive me and bring life and redemption and use what the devil meant for evil to bring about good in MY heart. If HE can do that for me, then HE can do that for one who sins against me (and against my children).

I don’t think God wants us to give up on those who mock and murder with their words. Saul was a mocker and murderer. God didn’t give up on him. He saw the light on the Damascus road! 🙂

I’m very much enjoying watching you guys over there. Like I said I turned OFF several of the ones who are so disrespectful (I love that feature 🙂 ). Its so clear how some have a way of murdering with their words. Its why their marriages fail in numbers higher than the world! They speak forth death and curses. They don’t speak LIFE!

I have a suggestion for you Cheryl.

Can you post links to the articles on your blog which address your points? I especially think that the diagrams in your article about Eve really simplify what you are saying and make it easy to grasp. I found that revelation very redemptive.

Don Johnson:
In my understanding, the tree of knowledge OGAE did NOT have seed in it. God in Gen 1:29 said the humans could eat of every tree with seed in its fruit. Ergo, the TOKOGAE did not have seed in its fruit. Seed shows life.

I was thinking about this and had a lightbulb moment.
Some plants can propogate via their roots!
.And Heb 12:15 refers to a “root of bitterness” which “defiles many”
I have personal experience with a “root of bitterness”. It is probably the area where I have had to pray, repent, and fight spiritual warfare more than any other. One of the symptoms of it for me was quite a long term blindness to matters which are becoming clearer now. (Fundamentally, like Beth Moore says in Breaking Free, GOD IS NOT ABUSIVE!)

Another “root” verse to which I aspire:
“That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love ” Eph 3:17
I press on toward the goal…

PS. Sorry for the tangent Cheryl… fraid I talk too much on YOUR blog…

If I posted there, I would suggest to Diane and all the other women to meditate upon and pray with Paul: Eph 1:17-23, 2:6. (I mean, I bet this passage uses most of the “authority” words IN the NT and look what it says!)

The way they interpret 1Tim 2:11-15 would invalidate the above, so their interpretation can’t be right.

That makes sense, Don!
Actually, Galations 5 is consistent with that because the word “fruit” is only used for what comes from the “spirit”. What comes from the flesh is referred to as “works of the flesh”.

Sorry my scholarship is so sloppy…

There are 17 greek words for the works of the flesh. The strongs definitions filled 3 pages of a word document, and when I thought about them, they are very thorough in what they cover.

I won’t put any of that on here as it is a tangent, only I think it is a telling “mirror” to look into when Jesus says that it is those who DO HIS WILL who will be able to understand truth/correct doctrine. (John 7:17)

Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (444-anthropos/humans).
Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (444-anthropos/humans).
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men (444-anthropos/humans), that turn from the truth.

I have to add that the revelation you have received, Cheryl, is so very refreshingly redemptive! And it gives a new definition to the whole “deflection phenomenon” (aka projection, blameshifting) which Jesus referred to as “the log in their own eye”.

Just to clarify (since I can’t edit my post) the Rev 12 meditation is DISTINCT from the seed and tree meditation. (I ran them together)

Dear Cheryl,

This blog has been so quiet….
I spent a very very long time last night reading through some of the stuff over there. I figured out I could turn OFF the posters which were triiggering me, (except for that DianeS- gotta wonder how she justifies her position of “authority” over there with her apparent disdain for women having any).

Before I went over there, I spent some time in the archives of your blog here. (I still wish you would have cross posted all your comments from over there to here… If I had been thinking, I would have volunteered to collect them for you while I was reading them)

I am starting to GET IT! It is such an incredibly delightful affirming and uplifting paradox. Turns the hatefulness toward women inside out! Listen, if you have time, I wish you would give some thought to the entire chapter of Rev 12. And, the seed thing… The trees have seeds too- the “tree of life” and “the tree of knowledge … death”. FRUIT comes from TREES. What about JESUS as the “tree of life” and legalism as one of the manifestations of the “tree of knowledge… death”? I did an in depth word study of the Gal 5 fruit passage and found out that the works(fruit) of the flesh cover a lot of territory- where I- A CHRISTIAN- WAS LIVING!!! (I am a recovering legalist).

AND I wish you would give some thought to another idea which I have heard from several sources and I resonate with it in my own Christian life: I was saved but I was not born again. I had the DNA of Christ planted in me, I was reGENErated when I received HIM, but the rebirthing/the forming of Christ in me/the sanctification has been a process. Almost like a growing up process. But I consider that I have been a baby Christian, not growing, for an entire 25 years (and I went to seminary, served on the mission field in a muslim country, led bible studies, etc) but did not really STOP trusting that all the “authorities” knew better than me and start really listening to the Holy Spirit and digging into the Word for MYSELF until 3 years ago.

Another thing Rick Joyner points out in There Were Two Trees in the Garden (which resonated with me personally) is that Christians are more afraid of the devil’s power to deceive them(through “women” as the case may be :rolleyes:) than they trust in the Holy Spirit’s power to TEACH THEM. BTDT! As I found them, I collected verses which speak of God HIMSELF 8) teaching ME 8) : 1John 2:27; John 14:26; John 16:13; Eph 4:21; 1Cor 2:16

If any of Diane and Matt’s disciples read here, I would challenge you to PRAY and ask GOD what is the TRUTH!!! HE surely KNOWS!!!

Thanks technomom, that makes sense. 🙂
It also solves the issue of single women (which was somewhat confusing to me, they don’t HAVE husbands! … I kinda thought, “DON’T GET MARRIED BECAUSE LOOK WHAT AWAITS YOU!!!”)
Perhaps that sounds really REALLY dumb. But all you’d have to do is ask my 5 daughters… eg. My firstborn 23yod never dated yet, Beautiful, intelligent, godly, Christian, just accepted to med school for next year…
Nothing about this patriarchy gig looks attractive, better off single. ((((Sigh)))))

Pray for me. I have to go do God’s will: focus on hope, and pray that GOD will give us LIFE, and get some laundry done…

CYA!

From Jesus lips to your screen, the key to understanding if a doctrine is from GOD is doing HIS will:

John 7:12 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people…
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man (444-anthropos-human) will 8) do his will 8), he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

And I thought this- from my little collection of quotes- was apropos.

The Lord said that He was going to send His Spirit to lead us into all truth. All truth is in Jesus, of whom the Spirit was sent to testify (Eph 4:21). The Bible is a most precious and wonderful gift from the Lord to His people. But the Bible was not meant to take the place of the Lord Himself, nor the Spirit whom He sent. The Bible is a means, not an end. Knowing the book of the Lord is not our goal; our goal is to know the Lord of the book. The many errors and divisions within the body of Christ are not due to fault in the Bible, but our misuse of it. Some of the laws and principles we have wrested from the NT rival anything that the Pharisees did to the OT! This has caused us to measure our spirituality by how well we conform to the letter. Ours spirituality is not found in adapting to a form, but by the forming of Jesus within us….

It is possible to understand all Christian doctrine accurately and yet not be a Christian. Being a Christian is not just understanding certain doctrines and spiritual principles- it is having our life in Jesus. If the truth leads us to life in Jesus, it has accomplished its purpose. But if the truth becomes the focal point, it kills- it is the knowledge of good and evil.

Christians, disciples of Jesus who He said would be recognized by their love, have demonstrated the uncanny ability to agree on 98% of their doctrines and separate from one another over the 2% on which they disagree. Required agreement on nonessentials is almost always rooted in insecurity, a symptom that the authority is not rooted in Christ. If we are rooted and abiding in Christ, we will not be intimidated by even the most severe challenges. The one who derives his authority from above understands the Lord’s supreme authority and power and will not be overly concerned with even the greatest opposition from men…

from There Were Two Trees in the Garden