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All (5535) Mike Winger (5535)
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mike's stated goal is to teach people how to think biblically rather than just declaring what is true, enabling independent biblical reasoning.

Series introduction — Mike's teaching philosophy

thinking biblically Mike Winger
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Definition of complementarianism: women and men are equal in value but have different roles, particularly that women should not serve as elders.

Framing the debate — defining key terms

complementarianism eldership gender roles
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Definition of egalitarianism: equality in both personhood and role, with no limits on what women can do in the church including serving as elders.

Framing the debate — defining key terms

eldership gender roles egalitarianism
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Despite being secondary, this issue has massive practical impact on women's ministry, marriage, church choice, and which teachers to follow.

Why this topic matters practically

women in ministry women pastors practical application
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Exploring the range of practical questions: women as deacons, youth leaders, worship leaders, and non-pastoral teachers like Krista Bontrager and Jen Wilkin.

Scope of practical questions raised by this debate

women deacons Krista Bontrager Jen Wilkin
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

For egalitarians these role questions are easy; for complementarians they require nuance. Examples include women theologians like Nancy Pearcey and the debate over women seminary teachers (John Piper opposes it).

Scope of practical questions raised by this debate

John Piper complementarianism Nancy Pearcey John Piper
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Women as authors and book endorsements — Mike endorsed Natasha Crain's book 'Faithfully Different' and asks whether that endorsement is acceptable.

Scope of practical questions raised by this debate

Natasha Crain Faithfully Different women authors
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

The question of women as guest speakers on Sunday mornings, referencing Joni Eareckson Tada as an example.

Scope of practical questions raised by this debate

guest speakers Joni Eareckson Tada Sunday morning teaching
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Women bloggers, podcasters, and YouTubers like Alisa Childers raise the same questions — she has more impact than most pastors.

Scope of practical questions raised by this debate

complementarianism Alisa Childers women in online ministry
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Additional practical questions: interviewing women, women on church boards, women evangelists, conference speakers, voting for a woman president, women as bosses, stay-at-home dads.

Scope of practical questions raised by this debate

gender roles practical application women in leadership
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Can a woman correct a man's theology? Can a woman serve communion? The uncertainty causes women to hold back even from things they could do.

Scope of practical questions raised by this debate

women correcting theology women serving communion soft complementarianism
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Video 4 will address women in the New Testament: women as apostles, elders, deacons, and teachers, including the Junia question.

Series overview and roadmap

women deacons Junia women apostles
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Video 7 will study the head coverings passage in 1 Corinthians 11 in great detail.

Series overview and roadmap

1 Cor 11 head coverings
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Direct address to women in ministry: Mike is not questioning their hearts, impact, or calling them false teachers simply because they are women who teach.

Pastoral aside to women in ministry

women in ministry pastoral sensitivity false teacher accusation
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mistake #1: Using life experience to answer what the Bible says — 'I know I'm called' as a bypass of scripture.

Mistake #1: Life experience overriding scripture

bypassing scripture calling experience-based theology
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Life experience bypasses scripture on both sides: 'A woman pastor ministered to me' (egalitarian) or 'Women have frequently been false teachers' (complementarian).

Mistake #1: Life experience overriding scripture

bypassing scripture experience-based theology false teachers
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mistake #4: Believing that equality of personhood philosophically rules out differences in roles. Mike introduces Rebecca Merrill Groothuis and her work.

Mistake #4: Equality of personhood rules out role differences

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis equality of personhood role differences
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's argument appears in chapter 20 of 'Discovering Biblical Equality' — a brand new edition of the premier egalitarian multi-author volume that Mike read including an advance copy.

Mistake #4: Equality of personhood rules out role differences

egalitarian scholarship Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Discovering Biblical Equality
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's syllogism: if women's subordination is permanent, comprehensive, and ontologically grounded, then women are inferior persons; women are not inferior; therefore subordination is unjustified.

Mistake #4: Analyzing Groothuis's syllogism

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Discovering Biblical Equality syllogism
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mike agrees women are not inferior persons but argues that submissive roles and inferior personhood are not the same thing — children submit to parents, employees to bosses.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Groothuis's syllogism

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis submission vs. inferiority personhood
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's three qualifications — permanent, comprehensive, ontologically grounded — do not describe what complementarians actually believe or what the Bible teaches.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Groothuis's qualifications

complementarianism Rebecca Merrill Groothuis permanent subordination
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Rebuttal: women's submission is not comprehensive — Groothuis claims there is 'no area in which a woman has any authority, privilege, or opportunity that a man is denied,' which massively overstates complementarian claims.

Mistake #4: Rebutting 'comprehensive'

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Discovering Biblical Equality comprehensive submission
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Groothuis's argument only works against an extreme form of complementarianism that most complementarians would also reject — it attacks a straw man.

Mistake #4: Straw man critique

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis straw man argument relational submission
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mike argues unexpressed human capacities do not make someone less human — children who die young have unexpressed capacities but are not less human.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Groothuis's definition of human

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis dehumanization argument unexpressed capacities
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Tom Schreiner's response to Groothuis: egalitarians face the 'daunting prospect' of saying non-priestly Israelites had less dignity than Levites.

Mistake #4: Schreiner's critique of Groothuis

Levites Tom Schreiner Two Views on Women in Ministry
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Israel as God's chosen nation is another example: other nations could not qualify no matter how faithful, yet this does not make them less human.

Mistake #4: Chosen nation analogy

nature-based roles Israel as chosen nation election
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Even if Groothuis is right philosophically, her conclusion explicitly blocks Bible reading — she says there can be 'no biblical or theological warrant' for women's submission, which pre-determines what the Bible is allowed to say.

Mistake #4: How Groothuis's argument bypasses scripture

bypassing scripture biblical authority Rebecca Merrill Groothuis
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Philip Payne's related argument in 'Man and Woman, One in Christ': if we are equal in Christ, we cannot exclude anyone from leadership based on gender.

Mistake #4: Payne's variant of the philosophical argument

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ equality in Christ
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mike's rebuttal to Payne: role differences are about God's calling/assignment, not nature or equality in Christ. Payne's logic would make eldership part of what it means to be Christian.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Payne

eldership Philip Payne equality in Christ
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Both Groothuis and Payne's philosophical arguments kill Bible study by leaving only two options: the Bible supports egalitarianism, or the Bible is wrong.

Mistake #4: Conclusion

bypassing scripture Philip Payne biblical authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Beth Allison Barr's 'The Making of Biblical Womanhood' as a prime example of story-driven theology — the book frames the entire discussion through personal pain and church hurt.

Mistake #5: Critique of Beth Allison Barr's book

church hurt story-driven theology Beth Allison Barr
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Barr equates complementarianism with abuse — 'you cannot separate the issues' — making the book about stories creating theology rather than understanding scripture in context.

Mistake #5: Critique of Beth Allison Barr's book

complementarianism and abuse Beth Allison Barr The Making of Biblical Womanhood
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Barr's argument: personal stories overrule any theological distinction — 'nice try, tell that to my story' — all nuance and distinction between pagan patriarchy and complementarianism is erased.

Mistake #5: Stories overruling scripture

bypassing scripture story-driven theology Beth Allison Barr
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Discovering Biblical Equality chapter 28 argues complementarianism causes domestic abuse from a social science perspective.

Mistake #5: Academic version of the abuse argument

Discovering Biblical Equality domestic abuse complementarianism and abuse
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Quote from Discovering Biblical Equality: complementarianism is 'by definition a system of permanently unequal power distribution' that creates conditions under which abuse flourishes.

Mistake #5: Academic version of the abuse argument

Discovering Biblical Equality domestic abuse complementarianism and abuse
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mike's rebuttal: the argument that complementarianism causally relates to domestic violence does not pass the 'smell test' when applied consistently to other authority structures.

Mistake #5: Rebuttal via analogy

government analogy authority structures logical consistency
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

The reverse would also be invalid: blaming egalitarians for divorce rates and dysfunctional homes would equally bypass scripture.

Mistake #5: Showing the argument works both ways

bypassing scripture logical consistency
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Egalitarians do the same with Galatians 3:28; Thomas Schreiner argues no single set of texts should function as a prism controlling the others.

Mistake #7: One passage rules the rest — egalitarian side

Gal 3:28 1 Tim 2:12 proof-texting
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Three commitments: (3) Mike will not be 'God's PR department' — he will not avoid truths or fail to confront false beliefs to make Christianity palatable.

Three things Mike will NOT do in this series

God's PR department biblical submission intellectual honesty
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Preview of Genesis 1-3 debate: creation order, Adam naming Eve, Eve as climax of creation, Adam blamed for the fall, dominion given to both, 'your husband will rule over you' — with complementarian and egalitarian responses to each.

Preview of next video (Video 2)

Gen 1-3 creation order Adam naming Eve
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Closing: Mike welcomes viewers to the series, expects low view counts but prioritizes depth, and announces a Friday live Q&A at 1 PM Pacific.

Closing remarks

women in ministry biblethinker.org
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Definition of complementarian and egalitarian positions in the debate over women in ministry.

Framing the two sides of the debate

women in ministry complementarianism egalitarianism
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Both egalitarians and complementarians agree that Genesis 1-3 is theologically foundational for understanding male-female relationships.

Establishing common ground between the two sides

Gen 1-3 Discovering Biblical Equality Mary Conway
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Male and female are both made in God's image -- the highest statement about human value, foundational to the debate.

Genesis 1 analysis -- imago Dei

image of God Gen 1:27 human dignity
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Mary Conway's argument that all plural imperative verbs in Genesis 1:28 include both man and woman with no restriction on any activity, including dominion.

Egalitarian argument from Genesis 1

Discovering Biblical Equality Gen 1:28 Mary Conway
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Biblical examples of women who worked outside the home: Proverbs 31 woman (entrepreneur), Lydia (businesswoman), Priscilla (tentmaker).

Biblical counter-examples to women-only-at-home view

Prov 31 Lydia Priscilla
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Mike's rebuttal: 'bone of my bones' denotes familial connection but says nothing about authority being present or absent, shown by 2 Samuel 5:1 and Judges 9:2.

Evaluating Payne's 'bone of my bones' argument

Philip Payne bone of my bones 2 Sam 5:1
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Two types of egalitarian arguments for Genesis 2: negative case (refuting complementarian points) or positive case (Genesis 2 rules out authority differences).

Framework for evaluating egalitarian arguments

Gen 2 negative vs. positive case egalitarian hermeneutics
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Payne's second argument: the man (not the woman) leaves father and mother, which implies equality rather than male authority.

Egalitarian argument from Genesis 2:24

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ Gen 2:24
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Mike's refutation of Trible: 'adam' is never used as 'earth creature' in Hebrew; in Genesis 2 it always refers to a male; and Genesis 2:23 ('ish') proves Adam was already male.

Refuting Trible's sexually undifferentiated adam theory

adam Phyllis Trible Gen 2:22-23
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