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Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Acts 8:1 — all believers scattered except the apostles, showing persecution targeted non-leaders

The persecution resulted in everyone fleeing Jerusalem except the apostles. If persecution targeted leaders, the non-leaders should have stayed.

Acts 8:1 persecution argument Acts 8:1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Stephen was a deacon, not a high leader, yet he was stoned

Stephen's martyrdom further undermines the claim that persecution targeted only high leaders.

Acts 8 Stephen Acts 8 deacon
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Acts 8:3 — Saul went house to house dragging off men and women; this was general persecution, not targeting leaders

Mike reads Acts 8:3 which is the actual text Wright bases his argument on. Paul went to every house interrogating whether people were Christians.

Acts 8:3 persecution argument Acts 8:3
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Conclusion on persecution argument: being persecuted proves you are a Christian, not a leader

Mike's conclusion: the NT context never says persecution implies important leadership. It just implies being a Christian.

persecution argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike covers N.T. Wright because many viewers said Wright influenced their egalitarian views

Mike explains he is covering Wright's arguments not because many scholars make them, but because viewers told him Wright was the reason they became egalitarian.

N.T. Wright
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 2 detail: N.T. Wright claims 'sat at the feet' is a technical phrase meaning rabbinical training

Wright argues that Mary sitting at Jesus's feet (Luke 10:39) means she was being trained to become a rabbi/teacher, not merely learning as a disciple.

Luke 10:39 Acts 22:3 N.T. Wright Luke 10:39 Mary and Martha
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Acts 22:3 — Paul 'at the feet of Gamaliel' does not prove everyone who sat at a teacher's feet became a rabbi

Mike questions whether the phrase necessarily means rabbinical training for every person who used it.

Acts 22:3 Acts 22:3 sat at the feet Gamaliel
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Luke 8:35 uses the same phrase 'sitting at the feet of Jesus' for the healed demoniac — who was clearly not being trained as a rabbi

Mike finds a counter-example in the same gospel (Luke), only two chapters away, using the identical phrase.

Luke 8:35 sat at the feet Luke 8:35 Gerasene demoniac
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

A third option Wright did not consider: learning theology deeply without becoming a rabbi

Mike rejects Wright's binary (learning for information vs. becoming a rabbi) and proposes a middle option.

N.T. Wright discipleship
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Correction for complementarians: no theology is off limits to women

Mike uses the Mary passage to correct complementarians who would limit what theology women can learn.

Luke 10:39-42 Mary and Martha women in theological education Luke 10:39-42
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 3 introduced: Universal priesthood of believers

Mike introduces the argument: since all NT believers are priests, and priestly functions include teaching and leading, women should be able to be elders.

eldership universal priesthood of believers
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

There is no select group of priests within the body of Christ in the New Testament

Mike explains that the concept of a special clerical priesthood arose from culture and church history, not from the NT or apostolic teaching.

presbyter priesthood Roman Catholicism
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Peter 2:4-5 — all believers are a holy priesthood offering spiritual sacrifices

Mike begins building the biblical case for universal priesthood from 1 Peter.

1 Peter 2:4-5 universal priesthood of believers 1 Peter 2:4-5 spiritual sacrifices
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Revelation 1:5-6 — Jesus made us a kingdom and priests; includes all freed by his blood

Another proof text for universal priesthood.

Revelation 1:5-6 universal priesthood of believers Revelation 1:5-6
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Revelation 5:9-10 — those ransomed from every tribe are made a kingdom and priests

Mike continues building the universal priesthood case from Revelation.

Revelation 5:9-10 universal priesthood of believers Revelation 5:9-10
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Revelation 20:6 — all who share in the first resurrection are priests and will reign with Christ

Final priesthood proof text: men and women together in rulership and priesthood for the millennium.

Revelation 20:6 universal priesthood of believers Revelation 20:6 millennium
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

The Bible never speaks of a second tier of 'extra-priesty' people within the body of Christ

Mike emphasizes there is no second category of priests in the NT beyond the universal priesthood.

universal priesthood of believers clerical priesthood
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Some complementarians argue eldership is priestly in character, therefore reserved for men — Mike rejects this

Mike introduces and then rejects a complementarian argument that the pastoral office is priestly and therefore male-only.

Discovering Biblical Equality Stanley Grenz priestly character of eldership
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz: the NT parallel to Levitical priesthood is the church as a whole, not ordained leaders

Grenz argues that the priesthood of all believers means the parallel to OT priests is all Christians, not just clergy.

Discovering Biblical Equality universal priesthood of believers Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike partially agrees with Grenz but warns against pushing the OT-NT priesthood parallel too far

Mike agrees that some functions of the Levitical priesthood transferred to all believers, but not everything transfers perfectly.

typology Stanley Grenz Levitical priesthood
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Anecdote: Mike challenged a female complementarian scholar at ETS about the universal priesthood problem in her argument

A female egalitarian (corrected: complementarian) scholar argued that priesthood is masculine in character and therefore women cannot hold pastoral positions. Mike asked her about the universal priesthood of believers.

universal priesthood of believers ETS (Evangelical Theological Society)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Arguments that current leadership is priestly in character are bad, but we can learn something from an all-male OT priesthood

Mike rejects the priestly-character-of-eldership argument but says there may still be relevant principles from the all-male Levitical priesthood.

eldership Levitical priesthood
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz's positive case: whoever is a priest should be able to be an elder

After Grenz dismantles the complementarian argument, he builds his own: women are priests, therefore they can be elders.

Discovering Biblical Equality universal priesthood of believers Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Priesthood is necessary but not sufficient for eldership

Mike proposes replacing 'irrelevant' with 'insufficient for' in Grenz's claim.

eldership qualifications necessary but not sufficient
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz argues the Spirit's sovereign call and gifting, not gender, determines who can be an elder

Grenz's more detailed argument: since the Spirit calls believer-priests to ministry, gender cannot be an overriding disqualifying factor.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Discovering Biblical Equality Stanley Grenz 1 Corinthians 12:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 1: Not all priests can be elders — eldership has requirements beyond being a Christian

Mike's first rebuttal to Grenz: the Bible pragmatically refutes the argument by listing elder qualifications beyond priesthood.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications Titus 1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 2: If the Holy Spirit is the source of the gender limitation, then ignoring it removes the Spirit's sovereign call

Grenz claims gender restrictions remove the Spirit's sovereign call. Mike flips this argument.

Stanley Grenz eldership qualifications sovereignty of the Spirit
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 3: Grenz's argument assumes priesthood + gifts are the ONLY factors for eldership — they are not

Grenz's case rests on two factors: being a priest and having gifts. Mike argues these are not the only factors.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 Stanley Grenz eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike argues for obedience even if God's reasons seem offensive to culture

If one of the elder qualifications is being male, that may be offensive to our culture, but God has the right to set up His church as He sees fit.

divine authority cultural offense
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Priesthood means no one mediates between you and God; this is different from teaching

Mike now builds his positive case for what priesthood means for Christians and why it does not equate to eldership.

1 Timothy 2:5 priesthood mediation 1 Timothy 2:5
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Timothy 2:5 — one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Mike cites this verse as foundational for the doctrine of no human mediators in Christianity.

1 Timothy 2:5 mediation 1 Timothy 2:5 church tradition
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Hebrews 10:19-22 — believers can enter the holy places directly through Jesus's blood

Mike uses Hebrews to demonstrate that all believers have direct access to God without a mediator.

Hebrews 10:19-22 priesthood mediation Hebrews 10:19-22
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

No special group of Christians should serve as a bridge to God's grace for other Christians

Mike argues against any form of priestly mediation within Christianity.

Hebrews 6:19 Roman Catholicism mediation Hebrews 6:19
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Correction for complementarians: the husband is NOT the priest of his home

Mike disagrees with many complementarians, including pastors he has respected, on this point.

headship universal priesthood of believers complementarian correction
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Being a priest does not mean anything about being an elder; eldership is not priestly in character

Mike draws the sharp distinction: priesthood is about access to God, not about teaching or leading others.

eldership priesthood mediation
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Anticipated objection: if women could not be OT priests but are NT priests, why can't they hold the highest roles?

Mike addresses the challenge to his view: if women's exclusion from OT priesthood was about gender, and now they are priests, doesn't that prove they can have any role?

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 Levitical priesthood eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

What was uniquely priestly was the mediating function, which now belongs to all believers

Mike clarifies the distinction between priestly mediation and teaching.

1 Timothy 2 1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 2 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 4 introduced: The prophecy argument — if women prophesied, they can teach and be elders

Mike introduces the fourth and one of the more challenging arguments. Women prophesied, prophecy is a high role with authority, therefore women can teach and be elders.

prophecy argument women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Survey of women who prophesied in the Bible: Miriam, Huldah, Deborah, Isaiah's wife, Anna, Philip's four daughters

Mike establishes that women clearly prophesied throughout the Bible, both in the OT and NT.

Isaiah's wife Luke 2 Acts 21:9 Deborah women prophesying Miriam
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11 gives rules for how women should prophesy in public gatherings; Acts 2 / Joel 2 declares sons and daughters shall prophesy

Key NT evidence that women prophesied publicly in church gatherings.

1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 Joel 2 1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Three egalitarian claims from women prophesying: (1) women could speak publicly, (2) prophecy is similar to teaching, (3) prophecy carries authority rivaling eldership

Mike outlines three sub-arguments egalitarians derive from women prophesying.

Craig Keener prophecy argument prophecy and authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Claim 1 analysis: Women speaking publicly in mixed-gender gatherings is demonstrably true

Mike agrees with the first egalitarian claim derived from prophecy.

prophecy argument women speaking publicly
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Two key passages used by strong complementarians to deny women speaking publicly: 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2

Mike identifies the passages that fuel the opposing view.

1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14:34 John MacArthur 1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14:34 John MacArthur
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Complementarian claim that women only prophesied privately is an error

Some complementarians argue women had private prophetic revelation but never prophesied publicly.

Deborah Huldah Barak
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11 clearly refers to prophecy in public mixed-gender gatherings; the whole section (chs. 11-14) deals with gathered worship

Mike argues the broader context of 1 Corinthians leaves no room for limiting this to private settings.

1 Corinthians 11 head coverings 1 Corinthians 11 women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Anna prophesied publicly at the temple to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem (Luke 2:36-38)

Mike presents Anna as another example of public, mixed-gender prophetic speech.

Luke 2:36-38 women prophesying Anna Luke 2:36-38
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 gives parallel instructions for men and women prophesying in the same context

Mike reads the key text: men are told how to prophesy, and in the same breath women are told how to prophesy.

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 head coverings women prophesying 1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

John MacArthur's response: maybe Paul means public places but not congregational worship gatherings

Mike quotes MacArthur's article (from gty.org) about head coverings to show his interpretation.

1 Corinthians 11 John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11 John MacArthur Grace to You (gty.org)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

MacArthur's real basis: 1 Corinthians 14:34 (women keep silent) overrides the plain reading of 1 Corinthians 11

Mike identifies that MacArthur's position depends entirely on 1 Corinthians 14:34 controlling the meaning of chapter 11.

1 Corinthians 11 1 Corinthians 14:34 John MacArthur hermeneutics 1 Corinthians 11 1 Corinthians 14:34
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Four reasons why 1 Corinthians 11 must be about Christian worship gatherings, not just public places

Mike gives detailed reasons for rejecting MacArthur's reading.

John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11:16 John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11:16 church gathering context
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