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All (1887) Mike Winger (1887)
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-13

2 Corinthians 5:21: God made Jesus who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf

Substitutionary atonement — the great exchange

2 Corinthians 5:21 imputed righteousness 2 Corinthians 5:21 substitutionary atonement
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-13

The gospel reframes Anderson's death-button: the button falls on Jesus, not on us

Applying substitutionary atonement to Anderson's rhetoric

gospel substitutionary atonement Steven Anderson
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-13

John 10:10: Jesus came that they may have life and have it abundantly

Response to Anderson's "put a bullet in your head" advice

John 10:10 John 10:10 abundant life Jesus's mission
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-13

Matthew 11:28 and John 3:16-17: Jesus's actual advice — come to me; God sent Son to save not judge

What Jesus would actually say to sinners

Matthew 11:28 John 3:16-17 salvation Jesus's mission Matthew 11:28
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-13

1 Corinthians 6:9-11: Such were some of you — homosexuals and all manner of sinners were washed, sanctified, justified

Direct scriptural refutation that homosexuals cannot be saved

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 salvation justification 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-13

Worldview gap: secular view — people are generally good and deserve heaven; biblical view — the opposite

Explaining why gospel sounds offensive to secular ears

biblical worldview universal sinfulness secular worldview
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Introduction: Mike Winger introduces the topic of Jesus mythicism and its growing online influence

Opening segment of livestream

online skepticism Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The Zeitgeist film and Bill Maher's Religulous cited as catalysts for the modern Jesus myth movement

Identifying pop-culture sources of Jesus mythicism

Jesus mythicism Zeitgeist (film) Religulous (film)
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Guest introduction: Dr. Mike Licona, historical Jesus scholar with PhD from University of Pretoria

Guest credentials and background

Lee Strobel Mike Licona University of Pretoria
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Scholarly consensus: Jesus mythicism is not a live discussion in academic New Testament studies or history

Mike Licona characterizes the state of scholarly opinion on mythicism

scholarly consensus Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Bart Ehrman's statement: mythicist view has no foothold among modern critical scholars

Quoting agnostic/atheist scholar to demonstrate non-Christian scholarly consensus

scholarly consensus Bart Ehrman Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Maurice Casey (agnostic) concludes mythicist arguments are completely spurious, put forward by incompetent and unqualified people

Quoting another non-Christian scholar on mythicism

scholarly consensus Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Joseph Hoffmann (agnostic, Harvard/Oxford) calls mythicists the greatest threat to calm academic study of religion next to fundamentalism

Third non-Christian scholar quoted condemning mythicism

scholarly consensus Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Analogy: Entertaining Jesus mythicism is like scientists debating Flat Earth, or historians entertaining Holocaust denial

Illustrating the scholarly view of Jesus mythicism's credibility level

Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus argument from analogy
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Non-Christian sources for Jesus: Josephus, Tacitus, and Lucian of Samosata all mention Jesus

Overview of non-Christian historical sources for Jesus

Josephus Tacitus historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Tacitus places Jesus's execution under Tiberius Caesar while Pontius Pilate was procurator; both Tacitus and Lucian are hostile to Christianity

Significance of hostile sources attesting to Jesus

criterion of embarrassment Pontius Pilate Tacitus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Paul as historical witness: he knew Jesus's brother James, persecuted the church, and lived in the same region and time as Jesus

Discussing Paul's evidence for the historical Jesus

1 Corinthians James (brother of Jesus) Paul 1 Corinthians James (brother of Jesus)
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Argument: Paul's conversion is inexplicable if Jesus were fictional — he was in Jerusalem at the same time as the crucifixion

Using Paul's personal proximity to events to argue against mythicism

Paul Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The Gospels (especially Mark and John) contain eyewitness testimony, serving as evidence for a historical Jesus

The Gospels as historical sources

John the son of Zebedee Peter Gospel of John Gospel of Mark
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The rapid genesis and spread of the Christian movement is hard to explain if Jesus were fictional and not within living memory

Sociological argument for historical Jesus

Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus early Christianity
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Josephus mentions Jesus twice: Antiquities 18.63 (disputed) and Antiquities 20.200 (virtually undisputed)

Explaining the two Josephus passages

James (brother of Jesus) Josephus James (brother of Jesus) Antiquities of the Jews
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The Testimonium Flavianum (Antiquities 18.63) was interpolated by a Christian, but most scholars think an authentic Josephus reference to Jesus underlies it

Scholarly consensus on the interpolation question in Josephus

Josephus Origen Antiquities of the Jews
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Louis Feldman (leading Josephus scholar, Jewish, non-Christian) believed Josephus mentioned Jesus in both passages, estimated 3-to-1 or 5-to-1 ratio of scholars who agree

Expert Josephus scholarly opinion on the authenticity question

John Meier Josephus historicity of Jesus Testimonium Flavianum
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Tacitus spells "Christos" correctly even while initially writing "Chrestus" — the full passage explicitly identifies Christ as executed under Pontius Pilate under Tiberius

Addressing the "different group" objection to Tacitus

Pontius Pilate Tacitus historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Richard Carrier's claim that all extra-biblical sources simply copy Gospel accounts is refuted by Tacitus's late date and hostile stance

Refuting Carrier's hypothesis that non-Christian sources merely echo the Gospels

Richard Carrier Tacitus Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The dying and rising gods parallel argument fails because Paul and non-Christian sources still have to be explained independently of the Gospels

Initial response to the Greco-Roman dying/rising gods parallel argument

Paul Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

First-century Christians were pious, Torah-observant Jews who debated minutiae of Jewish law — making wholesale borrowing from pagan myths implausible

Cultural argument against the pagan parallels theory

early Christianity dying and rising gods pagan mythology
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Analogy: Parallel details in the B-29 Empire State Building crash (1945) and 9/11 do not mean 9/11 was copied — you need a causal connection

Illustrating that parallel details alone prove nothing without demonstrating causal connection

historicity of Jesus argument from analogy dying and rising gods
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Historians are unpersuaded by pagan parallels because the parallels are not actually that similar; Asclepius is the closest pre-Jesus parallel and only heals/occasionally raises dead

Examining specific pagan parallels to Jesus

historicity of Jesus dying and rising gods pagan mythology
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Apollonius of Tyana, the closest post-Jesus parallel, did not believe in resurrection and has only one account of an after-death appearance — in a dream to one disciple

Examining the post-Jesus pagan parallel most cited by mythicists

resurrection Apollonius of Tyana historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Mythicists must composite multiple figures (Dionysus, Horus, Asclepius, Apollonius, Hercules) to approximate Jesus — historians reject this method

Exposing the composite methodology of Jesus-myth parallels

Apollonius of Tyana Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Analogy: Compositing Lincoln, JFK, and fictional David Palmer to "prove" Obama is a myth illustrates the fallacy of the mythicist composite method

Illustrating the logical fallacy in compositing pagan parallels

John F. Kennedy Abraham Lincoln Jesus mythicism Barack Obama
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Richard Carrier's claim that Paul only describes a Jesus in outer space, never on earth

Presenting a key mythicist argument from Richard Carrier about Paul

Paul Richard Carrier Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Romans 1:3 refutes the "outer space Jesus" claim — Paul explicitly places Jesus as a historical descendant of David born in the flesh

Exegetical refutation of Carrier's cosmic Jesus interpretation

Romans 1:3 Paul Richard Carrier Davidic descent
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Some mythicists argue "James the brother of the Lord" means a fellow believer, not a biological brother of Jesus

Mythicist reinterpretation of Paul's reference to James

James (brother of Jesus) Paul James (brother of Jesus) Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Refutation: Paul and Jesus use "brothers" for all believers, but Matthew names four brothers of Jesus including James — confirmed by Josephus

Multiple source attestation for James as biological brother of Jesus

Galatians James (brother of Jesus) Matthew 13:55 Josephus Galatians multiple attestation
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

John 7 records Jesus's brothers not believing in him during his ministry, then Acts records them as believers after resurrection — this disbelief/conversion arc supports biological relationship

The conversion of Jesus's brothers as evidence for their biological relationship

Acts James (brother of Jesus) John 7 Acts James (brother of Jesus) resurrection appearances
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Multiple independent attestation from Paul, Matthew, John (special L), and Josephus — the strongest form of historical evidence — confirms Jesus's brothers including James

Summary of multiple attestation for Jesus's brothers

James (brother of Jesus) Josephus multiple attestation James (brother of Jesus)
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Lack of contemporary accounts of Jesus is explained by low literacy rates (~10%), oral transmission culture, and early Christian expectation of imminent return

Responding to the objection that no writings about Jesus exist from his lifetime

argument from silence oral tradition historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Much ancient literature is lost: two-thirds of Tacitus's Histories, 12 of Plutarch's 60 biographies — including his life of Caesar Augustus

Contextualizing the argument from silence by noting the loss of ancient literature

argument from silence Plutarch Papias
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Roman historians didn't mention Jesus more because he wasn't significant to Roman history — they didn't even mention Pontius Pilate, known only from Philo, Josephus, and NT sources

Explaining the relative silence of Roman sources about Jesus

argument from silence Josephus Philo
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Argument from silence illustrated: Josephus omits his own capture by Romans from his autobiography; Grant's memoirs never mention the Emancipation Proclamation

Further examples showing argument from silence is a weak form of evidence

argument from silence Josephus historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Objection that scholars affirm historicity only because they signed faith statements is refuted by citing atheist/agnostic scholars who agree

Responding to the claim that Christian bias explains scholarly consensus on historicity

James Crossley John Dominic Crossan scholarly consensus Bart Ehrman historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Suggestion to mythicists: attend the Society of Biblical Literature annual meeting and ask scholars directly whether Jesus existed

Practical advice for those skeptical of scholarly consensus

scholarly consensus historicity of Jesus Society of Biblical Literature
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Virtual scholarly consensus on historical facts about Jesus: lived in Palestine, believed special relationship with God, performed astonishing deeds, taught in parables, criticized Jewish leaders, crucified under Pilate

Summarizing the bedrock facts about Jesus accepted by virtually all historians including non-Christians

scholarly consensus resurrection crucifixion of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The consensus extends well beyond a minimal "one man named Jesus died by crucifixion" — substantial historical data about Jesus is agreed upon

Qualifying the extent of the historical consensus on Jesus

scholarly consensus historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Bart Ehrman is in a small minority who deny Jesus was known as a miracle worker during his lifetime; most scholars disagree

Noting limits and minority positions within the broader consensus

scholarly consensus Bart Ehrman historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Methodological principle: dismissing miracle claims in historical sources reflects worldview bias, not following the evidence

Responding to the claim that miracle claims in historical sources can be safely dismissed

miracles epistemology naturalism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Audience question: "Consensus holds Jesus existed but was not the Christ of the Gospels" — Licona: that is not a consensus position

Audience Q&A — addressing the claimed scholarly consensus against Gospel accounts

scholarly consensus historicity of Jesus Jesus's miracles
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Audience Q: Why doesn't anyone reference Tacitus on Christian persecution until the 4th century? — Multiple 1st-century sources confirm early persecution of Christians

Audience question from "Godless Engineer" about Christian persecution attestation

Acts Hebrews Paul Peter Acts
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