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All (4093) Mike Winger (4093)
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Guest introduction: Dr. Mike Licona, historical Jesus scholar with PhD from University of Pretoria

Guest credentials and background

Lee Strobel Mike Licona University of Pretoria
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Scholarly consensus: Jesus mythicism is not a live discussion in academic New Testament studies or history

Mike Licona characterizes the state of scholarly opinion on mythicism

scholarly consensus Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Bart Ehrman's statement: mythicist view has no foothold among modern critical scholars

Quoting agnostic/atheist scholar to demonstrate non-Christian scholarly consensus

scholarly consensus Bart Ehrman Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Maurice Casey (agnostic) concludes mythicist arguments are completely spurious, put forward by incompetent and unqualified people

Quoting another non-Christian scholar on mythicism

scholarly consensus Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Joseph Hoffmann (agnostic, Harvard/Oxford) calls mythicists the greatest threat to calm academic study of religion next to fundamentalism

Third non-Christian scholar quoted condemning mythicism

scholarly consensus Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Analogy: Entertaining Jesus mythicism is like scientists debating Flat Earth, or historians entertaining Holocaust denial

Illustrating the scholarly view of Jesus mythicism's credibility level

Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus argument from analogy
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Non-Christian sources for Jesus: Josephus, Tacitus, and Lucian of Samosata all mention Jesus

Overview of non-Christian historical sources for Jesus

Josephus Tacitus historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Tacitus places Jesus's execution under Tiberius Caesar while Pontius Pilate was procurator; both Tacitus and Lucian are hostile to Christianity

Significance of hostile sources attesting to Jesus

criterion of embarrassment Pontius Pilate Tacitus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Argument: Paul's conversion is inexplicable if Jesus were fictional — he was in Jerusalem at the same time as the crucifixion

Using Paul's personal proximity to events to argue against mythicism

Paul Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The rapid genesis and spread of the Christian movement is hard to explain if Jesus were fictional and not within living memory

Sociological argument for historical Jesus

Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus early Christianity
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Josephus mentions Jesus twice: Antiquities 18.63 (disputed) and Antiquities 20.200 (virtually undisputed)

Explaining the two Josephus passages

James (brother of Jesus) Josephus James (brother of Jesus) Antiquities of the Jews
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Louis Feldman (leading Josephus scholar, Jewish, non-Christian) believed Josephus mentioned Jesus in both passages, estimated 3-to-1 or 5-to-1 ratio of scholars who agree

Expert Josephus scholarly opinion on the authenticity question

John Meier Josephus historicity of Jesus Testimonium Flavianum
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

The dying and rising gods parallel argument fails because Paul and non-Christian sources still have to be explained independently of the Gospels

Initial response to the Greco-Roman dying/rising gods parallel argument

Paul Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

First-century Christians were pious, Torah-observant Jews who debated minutiae of Jewish law — making wholesale borrowing from pagan myths implausible

Cultural argument against the pagan parallels theory

early Christianity dying and rising gods pagan mythology
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Analogy: Parallel details in the B-29 Empire State Building crash (1945) and 9/11 do not mean 9/11 was copied — you need a causal connection

Illustrating that parallel details alone prove nothing without demonstrating causal connection

historicity of Jesus argument from analogy dying and rising gods
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Mythicists must composite multiple figures (Dionysus, Horus, Asclepius, Apollonius, Hercules) to approximate Jesus — historians reject this method

Exposing the composite methodology of Jesus-myth parallels

Apollonius of Tyana Jesus mythicism historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Analogy: Compositing Lincoln, JFK, and fictional David Palmer to "prove" Obama is a myth illustrates the fallacy of the mythicist composite method

Illustrating the logical fallacy in compositing pagan parallels

John F. Kennedy Abraham Lincoln Jesus mythicism Barack Obama
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Richard Carrier's claim that Paul only describes a Jesus in outer space, never on earth

Presenting a key mythicist argument from Richard Carrier about Paul

Paul Richard Carrier Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Romans 1:3 refutes the "outer space Jesus" claim — Paul explicitly places Jesus as a historical descendant of David born in the flesh

Exegetical refutation of Carrier's cosmic Jesus interpretation

Romans 1:3 Paul Richard Carrier Davidic descent
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Some mythicists argue "James the brother of the Lord" means a fellow believer, not a biological brother of Jesus

Mythicist reinterpretation of Paul's reference to James

James (brother of Jesus) Paul James (brother of Jesus) Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Multiple independent attestation from Paul, Matthew, John (special L), and Josephus — the strongest form of historical evidence — confirms Jesus's brothers including James

Summary of multiple attestation for Jesus's brothers

James (brother of Jesus) Josephus multiple attestation James (brother of Jesus)
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Lack of contemporary accounts of Jesus is explained by low literacy rates (~10%), oral transmission culture, and early Christian expectation of imminent return

Responding to the objection that no writings about Jesus exist from his lifetime

argument from silence oral tradition historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Much ancient literature is lost: two-thirds of Tacitus's Histories, 12 of Plutarch's 60 biographies — including his life of Caesar Augustus

Contextualizing the argument from silence by noting the loss of ancient literature

argument from silence Plutarch Papias
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Roman historians didn't mention Jesus more because he wasn't significant to Roman history — they didn't even mention Pontius Pilate, known only from Philo, Josephus, and NT sources

Explaining the relative silence of Roman sources about Jesus

argument from silence Josephus Philo
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Argument from silence illustrated: Josephus omits his own capture by Romans from his autobiography; Grant's memoirs never mention the Emancipation Proclamation

Further examples showing argument from silence is a weak form of evidence

argument from silence Josephus historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Objection that scholars affirm historicity only because they signed faith statements is refuted by citing atheist/agnostic scholars who agree

Responding to the claim that Christian bias explains scholarly consensus on historicity

James Crossley John Dominic Crossan scholarly consensus Bart Ehrman historicity of Jesus
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Audience Q: Why doesn't anyone reference Tacitus on Christian persecution until the 4th century? — Multiple 1st-century sources confirm early persecution of Christians

Audience question from "Godless Engineer" about Christian persecution attestation

Acts Hebrews Paul Peter Acts
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Suetonius's report of Claudius expelling Jews from Rome matches Acts 18 — illustrating how omissions in one source don't prove falsehood; Josephus doesn't mention this expulsion

Cross-referencing Suetonius and Acts; illustrating argument from silence

Acts 18 argument from silence Josephus extra-biblical sources
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Paul quotes Psalm 16:10 in Acts 13, arguing Jesus's body did not decay — therefore the resurrection was physical and bodily, not merely visionary

Paul's bodily resurrection theology inferred from Acts 13

Acts 13 Psalm 16:10 David Paul resurrection
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Audience Q on mimesis: pagan parallels fail for the same reasons, plus early Christians were Torah-observant Jews who would not borrow from pagan myths

Audience question about mimesis / pagan parallel arguments

historicity of Jesus dying and rising gods pagan mythology
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Licona published a critique of the Keith/Le Donne volume in the Bulletin for Biblical Research, arguing scholars are too pessimistic about the criteria

Licona's scholarly engagement with the debate over historical criteria

Mike Licona criteria of authenticity historical methodology
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

John Dominic Crossan in debate with Licona affirmed the use of criteria — demonstrating that most historians still rely on them

Licona's debate with Crossan as evidence of continuing scholarly use of criteria

John Dominic Crossan Mike Licona criteria of authenticity John Dominic Crossan
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Advice to those influenced by Richard Carrier: read other skeptical scholars — Ehrman, Lüdemann, Casey — who have proper training in historical Jesus scholarship

Practical guidance for those following Carrier's mythicist arguments

Richard Carrier Bart Ehrman Jesus mythicism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-19

Licona's book Why Are There Differences in the Gospels? required classicist review to avoid errors in Plutarch material — illustrating disciplinary boundaries

Personal example of the importance of disciplinary specialization

Plutarch Mike Licona historical methodology
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Cessationist Interpretation 1: "the perfect" (to teleion) = the completed Bible, supported by a mirror/perfect-law parallel in James 1:23-25.

First of two cessationist readings. Proponents cite the shared vocabulary of "mirror" and "perfect" (teleios) between 1 Cor 13 and James 1 to argue the perfect thing is Scripture.

1 Corinthians 13:10 James 1:23-25 cessationism canon of Scripture to teleion
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Many cessationists themselves discourage using 1 Cor 13 as a proof-text for cessationism because it does not yield the argument verse-by-verse.

Transitional observation before presenting the second, more sophisticated cessationist argument from the Masters Seminary.

John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 13 John MacArthur cessationism 1 Corinthians 13
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Rebuttal: the inscripturation claim for prophecy and knowledge is unsubstantiated; New Testament prophets generally did not produce Scripture.

First major exegetical objection to the Masters Seminary argument. Winger demonstrates that NT prophets were not primarily Scripture-writers.

Acts 21:9 Acts 11 Acts 21:9 cessationism prophecy
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Verse-by-verse: v. 8 — love never ends; three gifts (prophecy, knowledge, tongues) will pass away; the context is clearly the spiritual gifts of 1 Cor 12-14.

Winger begins his own positive verse-by-verse treatment of 1 Cor 13:8-13.

1 Corinthians 13:8 spiritual gifts prophecy word of knowledge
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

1 Corinthians 15 confirms: "the perfect" is the resurrection state — imperishable bodies, the last trumpet, being changed — not the completion of the Bible.

Winger appeals to 1 Cor 15 (same letter, shortly after ch. 13) as the definitive referent for "when the perfect comes."

1 Corinthians 15 cessationism 1 Corinthians 15 eschatology
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Main point of 1 Cor 13: love, not gifts, is the permanent priority; pursuit of love must exceed pursuit of spiritual gifts.

Winger concludes the exegesis by restating Paul's actual primary argument.

1 Corinthians 13:13 spiritual gifts love 1 Corinthians 13:13
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Winger's own position: open but not normative — he agrees with cessationists on apostleship and a likely reduction of healing gifts, but rejects full cessationism.

Having refuted the cessationist use of 1 Cor 13, Winger clarifies his own nuanced view to avoid being read as a rampant charismatic.

apostolic office cessationism continuationism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Teresa Dedmon / Bethel: selling art as a vehicle for "spiritual impartation" and prophetic clothing that enhances God's presence is false teaching and commercial exploitation.

Second specific example from Bethel: the creative arts director's website claims her paintings and clothing impart heaven's presence.

Bethel Church false prophecy discernment
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

The cure for hyper-charismatic abuse is not cessationism but the biblical regulative norms already given in 1 Cor 12-14 for how gifts function in the church.

Winger resists the reactionary move of becoming cessationist in response to charismatic excess.

1 Corinthians 12-14 1 Corinthians 12-14 cessationism continuationism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Personal testimony: Winger reports a small number of personal experiences he believes were genuine prophetic insights that subsequently proved true.

Winger offers experiential (not dogmatic) support for remaining open to the gifts.

continuationism spiritual gifts prophecy
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Q&A: Tongues in 1 Cor 14 are actual languages; tongues always requires genuine linguistic communication; "groaning" in Romans 8 is distinct from the gift of tongues.

Response to viewer question about whether 1 Cor 14 tongues are languages or ecstatic utterances.

1 Corinthians 14 Romans 8 1 Corinthians 13:1 1 Corinthians 14 Romans 8 spiritual gifts
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Warning against seeking comfort in progressive or unorthodox theology as a false catharsis; such teachers typically demonize biblical Christianity to wedge in their reinterpretations.

Q&A response about walking with a friend questioning traditional beliefs, specifically mentioning Greg Boyd.

biblical authority apologetics discernment
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Cessationism is more common in Reformed theology but not universal; John Piper and Paul Washer are examples of Reformed non-cessationists.

Q&A response on whether cessationism is tied to Reformed or dispensationalist theology.

John Piper John Piper cessationism continuationism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Views on gifts are often driven more by experience than Scripture; the exegetical case against cessationism from 1 Cor 13 is strong but trajectory arguments for cessationism are weak.

Q&A — viewer asks whether people's positions on sign gifts are experience-based more than Scripture-based.

biblical authority cessationism continuationism
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Resource recommendation for documented modern miracles: Craig Keener's two-volume work "Miracles" provides medical/testimonial evidence catalogued by a respected scholar.

Q&A — viewer asks for visible evidence that gifts of healing are active today.

Craig Keener spiritual gifts healing
Mike Winger idea 2019-06-26

Historical question: sign gifts did not begin at Azusa Street; early church fathers (Justin Martyr, later Augustine) attest to prophecy and miracles continuing post-apostolically.

Q&A — viewer claims modern tongues/gifts stem from the 1906 Azusa Street revival. Winger corrects the historical record.

cessationism continuationism church history
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